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The alarming and growing trend of high priced third-party authenticators

Hello to all. I am a long time collector of rock autographs (started in 1988) but am new to this forum stuff. Anyway, I spent a hour or so today reading a thread on here regarding fakes and who sells forgeries and who doesn't, etc. and I found it very disconcerting. I have purchased autographs in the past 25 years from many dealers including Tom Platt, R & R, Blake Levine, Joe Long, Roger Epperson, Myron Ross and others. I don't claim to be an expert but after 25 years or research, collecting and study, I do think my own knowledge and opinion of what I collect is pretty solid. What concerns me is that the blog implies that unless the autograph has been given a 'blessing' by Mr. Epperson or PSA, it's highly unlikely that it's real. Really?? Well, in a phone conversation a few years ago, Mr Epperson told me that he has never once seen a real Prince autograph. Yet, if you look up the sold history on R&R's website, you will see that they have sold Prince items. Does that mean that R&R sold forgeries?? This is just one example. Almost ever dealer I've bought from, with the sole exception of Mr. Epperson, was referred to in this blog as a crook or worse.

I do know this: these self-appointed third party authenticators are now controlling the hobby and must be raking in money faster than they can count it. Think about it...

What are your thoughts on this??

1 member likes this

Comment by Bob Salvati on July 19, 2013 at 11:54am: I totally agree with you MikeP and you're Mantel example hits the nail on the head. Ebay is the root cause of this foolish insanity.

Hmm, that signed Eddie Money album I have may be bogus! I think I better pay up and have it authenticated..

Comment by Bob Salvati on July 19, 2013 at 7:09pm: Here is the awful truth: In this hobby, even with TPA, neither you nor me can ever be 100% certain that the signature we have displayed on our wall is real unless it was obtained in person. We all have to live and deal with that cold hard fact.

Comment by Erich Jerozal on July 19, 2013 at 7:21pm: Well put Mike. That is true. I don't understand why people would collect if you didn't want to know the signature your buying. Study and learn them, that is part of the hobby. Not just buying sigs all day.

Comment by John McGinnis on July 19, 2013 at 7:56pm: Carl - I don't know where you live or who you know that has gotten a Prince autograph, but even in the 80's he was a very scarce autograph. Back in the day I would collect semi-regularly in the states, including Minneapolis and none of the old time in person guys there ever got anything out of him. Save for NY or LA and they would be the more likely to score one. I tried him myself personally at least 7 or 8 times in the 80's. I probably know a dozen other lifelong in person collectors that have never gotten the guy. I would never use the word plentiful to describe his signature in any era. I am only saying it would not be too strange to say you have never seen a good one 15 years ago, whether it was factual or only made in jest. Yeah, I can find a handful of examples that I think could probably be real, but I don't know a soul that has seen the guy sign anything outside of the signings he did with the symbol signature. Maybe I just don't know the right people.

Comment by Bob Salvati on July 21, 2013 at 8:40pm: Hey Stephen -...actually I do smoke cigars on occasion so I will gladly accept one! (if you meant me)

Yes, I want to know and believe that EVERY item I have in my collection is real. You would think otherwise? ? And I've done my due dilligence to make non-emotional and educated buying decisions. Win some, lose some. Nobody bats 1000%, so I have been porked a few times. Live and learn. But It's much better now that is was prior to the internet. All we had to work with was crap like Sanders guide to Autographs for examplars. In those days you pretty much had to bank on a trust or bond as it were with a dealer and keep your fingers crossed. Not so anymore...

TPA is first and foremost a money making business and that is what is driving this craziness to new levels.

It'll be a cold day in hell when I pay $25 to TPA my $20 Eddie Money signed lp. I'll take my chances..

PS. R & R auction used to post pics of past completed sold items. They no longer post the pics. Geez, wonder why??

Comment by Bob Asher on July 22, 2013 at 1:07am: Lets talk about psa and jsa have you read haulsofshame.com they make big mistakes on expensive autographs, and seem to have a lot of info to back it up. Anyone else read up on these third party authenticaters.

Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on July 22, 2013 at 4:00pm: Bob, you have to be signed in to see RR's past auction images. It's been that way for years. If you don't have an account, sign up for one.

Comment by Bob Salvati on July 22, 2013 at 10:15pm: Steve - I was not aware of that and thank you for bringing it to my attention. I had an account as I have made purchases from them but it must have expired.

Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on July 23, 2013 at 5:49pm: Bob,

Just ask them to reopen your account or open a new one for you. The past auction database is hugely valuable.

Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on July 23, 2013 at 6:06pm: Bob,

You opened this discussion mentioning dealers you bought rock autographs from, including Joe Long and Myron Ross of Heroes & Legends. Joe Long was once a very respected seller, back in the '80s and early '90s, but he actually was quite a talented forger, especially of Beatles autographs. While he did sell some genuine autographs, the vast majority of what he sold was fake. This was discovered by Frank Caiazzo 20 years ago, and is well known.

Unfortunately, Myron Ross of Heroes & Legends has been one of America's major suppliers of forgeries for many years. We kicked him out of the Autograph Collector Magazine not long after I bought it (2004 or 2005) because we discovered that. The UACC kicked him out for the same reason a couple years later.

I recommend finding out about what you purchased from these individuals. Under California law (where they are located) you can sue Ross/Heroes and Legends for ten-times what he sold forgeries for, plus attorney fees and costs. Ross has a history of issuing refunds when it's expeditious to do so, so that's an avenue, too.