Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by James R. Altmann on June 25, 2011 at 4:12pm

Dickey still signs any Allman Brothers record that he was a part of - just ask him! It is Butch Trucks that tends to not sign ANYTHING these days. All four of these signatures are very authentic.

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Permalink Reply by sling on June 25, 2011 at 4:58pm

Many thanks. Things may have warmed up with them,  but, I still dopn't think Dickie is hanging around with the AB band.  Yet this album seems to present itself  be signed by all at the same time (all blue ink)-granted, Dickie could have signed it later...but with the same pen? Could happen less a  probability

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Permalink Reply by James R. Altmann on June 25, 2011 at 9:00pm

These type of comments give me a headache. I looked at the description and I did not see mention that Dickey has been "hanging around" the ABB as of late, I also did not see where it said it was signed by all four members at the same time. In person collectors can take years and years to finish a piece, and it is not uncommon to have a band sign a piece in the same color pen, it is preferred by most collectors. Dickey tours regularly with Dickey Betts & Great Southern and he does not refuse to sign Allman Bros items, as long as it is a release in which he played on. As I have no dog in this race I am only addressing your comments further in hopes of educating you and possibly others on the subject. If you obtain a signature from someone in the United States, there is about a 75% chance that the autograph is going to be in either blue or black felt tip marker, and it will probably be manufactured by the Sanford Company. The remaining percentage is going to be taken up by paint markers - usually blue or silver. Unless it is some specialty item, there is really no other colors that are WIDELY used, so it is not strange at all that an item with four signatures would be signed in the same color marker. I suppose if you were getting an item signed by four people you would ask them to sign it in yellow, red, purple, & green, right?

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Permalink Reply by sling on June 27, 2011 at 5:23pm

Major Dude, for you head problem my wife recommends Motrin.  She also says, that being we are just glorified fans, and not part of the insiders club of this website, would it be possible for you to state why you believe you are a valid autority on A brothers, sigs, or whatever...just curious.,

As for my comments, I was simply practicing what is know as deductive reasoning on the probability this was signed by all.  You said that Dickie was signing AB stuff.  My deduction was that that may be so, but its still unlikely that he is hanging with them in thw same room. Thus the person who got this signed had to likely go to another location on another date  to get Dickie's sig.Add to that the difficulty in getting access to these guys in the first place to get their sigs and it seems like it took alot of work to get this signed- only to sell two years later.

 

When you through in the fact that all used the same color pen (thus the album presents itself of being signed at the same time- Dickie COULD have signed later- but the implication  to an average observer is that they were all signed together. 

 

As for your pens comment-the 75% may apply to professional autograph seekers, but the general public I doubt it.  There is a tremendus amount of pen and marker selection in the US- the probablility that someone walks into a store and buys a magic marker that is different from what you stated is very high.  Thus only professional autograph bugs would fall into you pen statistics.

 

You say that Dickie regularly signes AB stuff- Does that include AB stuff already signed by the band- or if dICKIE signs first,  will the AB band sign stuff already signed by Dickie?  Who know?

 

In authenticating signatures, handwriting analysis is most important- but deductive reasoning is an important tool for any signature buyer. Word.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by James R. Altmann on July 13, 2011 at 1:44am

Pet: This is what I would do if I were you...I would not purchase the item or bid on it. In fact, I would not purchase ANY item that you have any doubt whatsoever as to it's authenticity. It doesn't matter what myself or anyone else says, how do you (I'm assuming a potential customer of the piece) feel about it? If you think an item signed by 4 different people in the same color pen is too good to be true, you should not buy the piece - no matter how insensible it sounds to me. Don't worry, someone will buy it - and they will be buying an authentic item signed by the band.

As for your pen comment, professional autograph seekers are the reason you see any authentic item sold, which appears to be the culprit behind the ABB piece. A fan is more likely to not sale an item. If it weren't for the pros (who use the combination of pens I talked about) there would be nothing for people to buy. If it weren't for the professional in person autograph seekers, these types of items would be astronomical in price. If it were left up to the fans to sell items on the secondary you would see only one item a year sold for any celebrity out there. I agree the Dickey signature is very ugly and I would not buy the piece only because of that fact, but I have seen - yes, first hand, a lot worse out of him over the years.

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Permalink Reply by sling on July 13, 2011 at 7:00am

Yeah, I was wondering about autograph bugs vs. fans (who only try to get sigs when the band shows up in their town).  I wonder when the balanced changed; when musicians  became so inaccessable that you needed special knowledge only a bug would have to access them? 1980? 1990?

 

I agree that always buy with a 'buyer beware' attitude and make sure you are satisfied to you self on autehnticity which often means digging up more  knowlege on the piece that the description and seller gives. As a collector, I prefer thing singed in pen hopefully from the 50s 60s and 70s because the often reflect the efforts of true fans when the bands i like were at their peak.  Also, as much as auto bugs like the pens/markers you mention, so do the forgers and I bet 95% of all forgeries uses those markers as well.

 

I was never interested in buying the Allman brothers' piece but it immediately jumped out at me regarding the dates and the dickie betts seperation from the band. I posted it here hoping someone had knowedge of the situation and you have educated us all on what is going on (although you did know answer my question on how you know this stuff-I aamume others on this site know you are legit-readers should be aware that anyone can go on these blogsand  pretend to know when they don't).  I have never diagreed with you signatures approval, which came after my post of the unusual situation of these signers.

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Permalink Reply by Sidney Fields on July 13, 2011 at 8:19am

I'm not an authority on signatures by any means.

I am a big Allman Brothers fan.

I've seen a few signatures of Dickey's that I know to be genuine.

Earlier this month I saw a signed guitar of his hanging on the wall at The Stone Pony in Asbury Park...signed at Dickey's 2005 show there. (Of course, I can't say I know this one to be genuine, but I presume that it is).

I've never seen a signature of his as shaky as this appears and I noted several days ago that it appears similar to a signature from an elderly person with a shaky hand.

I understand that there could be many factors that resulted in Dickey actually signing this item in a shaky hand.

And Gotta Have It has an excellent reputation for sellin genuine items.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that there should be some explanation from the seller as to the circumstances that resulted in such a signature.

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Permalink Reply by sling on July 13, 2011 at 1:19pm

I noticed an eat a peach signed album including a better dickie on RR auction but is closing today

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Permalink Reply by Sidney Fields on June 26, 2011 at 4:46pm

James...I'm with you.

It's infuriating when people seem to attribute words or meaning that you didn't say and never intended.

 

However, in this case, I'd cut the author a little slack.

It's understandable that he might be overly sensitive to potential flaws - stated or not - given his experience and the significant legal brawl it spawned.

 

But...I'm interested in the Dickey Betts' signature.  

It appears to my layman's eye that the signature may have been made with some struggle...and slowly...much as an elderly person might.

Do you know anything about that?  Is Dickey having some problem that would result in such a signature?

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Permalink Reply by James R. Altmann on June 26, 2011 at 11:43pm

Dickey still enjoys partaking of the rock n roll lifestyle (heavily - and the de facto reason he was asked to leave the ABB), so nothing that he does surprises me. Several years ago he signed simply the word "Bett" on two Allman Bros. pieces another collector was waiting to put him on. He signed everyone else's as usual, but some did - including myself get an abbreviated D. Betts. Dickey is by far the easiest of the four living ABB members, I would not have any problem adding this piece to my collection (if it were not personalized). I'm positive you could take this piece to Dickey himself and he would confirm it is indeed his signature.

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Permalink Reply by Sidney Fields on June 26, 2011 at 11:57pm

Sure...there have been stories published talking about Dickey's lifestyle.

I suppose you can't party hardy without impact.

But that signature - in style - resembles one I saw Jake LaMotta give a few days ago...shaky and slow.

And Jake has taken a few more punches than Dickey has.

At least I think that's the case.

 

Thanks, James.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by sling on July 2, 2011 at 7:23am

you have a very good memory to recall  my  earlier comment on my experience re ARA. As for my comments here, see my response to mr. altman.

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