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Authenticity is Everything
David Bowie General question
Hello-
I am curious to hear thoughts and maybe this has been addressed before.
I have many David Bowie signed items all with Andy Peters LOA. I recently tried to get these passed by a couple of 3rd party authenticators. Neither will authenticate them. I am not trying to get anything started here, just want to know what you guys think. I'm not concerned about the authenticity, just wonder what the disconnect is with the 3rd party guys. I have ran into certain names they just dont seem to want to authenticate.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Hi,
I help out at that site from time to time (1976-1980 is my area). Can you post the Bowie"s please? I would not expect the big three to know him very well from prior to the 80/90's. Andy's eyes and connections are very strong.
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Permalink Reply by Matt Smith on
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Eric thank you for your reply. I won't have them back in hand for another week or so. I'm not concerned about the Peters LOA. More concerned why the big 3 won't pass them. Ill be in touch. Thanks again
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Post the images you bought from if you can.
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Without images I can't say much of anything. Please post clear large scans of the items and the certificates as well.
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Here are most all the Bowie's I've sold. I sold many ISOLAR cards as I bought up as many as I could when RecordMecca first had them - for $149.99. Some went to members here who missed out on the low price which I passed on..
At the bottom are what I have collected for myself - a very rare red 1976 that is among the earliest examples of the Bo-° style to come. The still from The Man Who Fell to Earth is an origial lithograph from 1976 taken by Chuck White.The other is a signed mint copy of Heathen released and dated 2002. With this I have a double-weight satin finish color 8.5" x 11" Heathen publicity portrair by David Ockenfels. a Heathen promotional postcard with the portrait on one side and all the Heathen tour dates and locations, and a ticket from one of the shows. Oddly, both signatures were obtained in Stockholm. I have the exact dates for both somewhere.
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Hi Matt
I am more than happy to respond.
There are more than an number of problems with me as far as the "big 3rd party" authenticators are concerned and here are a few of the reasons...
1. I'm a Brit and therefore know f++k all.
2. I have called out so many Bowie fakes that respected "big name" 3rd party authenticators have adjudicated as genuine which have sold for thousands as a result of their blessing.
3. Top tier 3rd party authenticators hate a "new boy" particularly if they have been replaced and are retained for traditional auctioneers as an authenticator (Bonhams, Christies, Sothebys).
The trouble with 3rd party authenticators is that they claim to be able to know that any rock signature is genuine. How can they honestly and genuinely know the authenticity of thousands of different signatures through examples that they keep on file?
I deal only in Bowie signatures having collected them (in person) since 1978 - I have had him sign in front of me on over 20 times in person. I am a trained graphologist (a 2 year course) and work for various UK organisations identifying real and fake signatures on a number of documents including wills, cheques (checks) and letters. I know the difference between left and right handed signers...
Do I always get it right - NO.
I have turned down loads of Bowie signatures that don't look right but maybe are because of one big factor - I was not there in person to see it being signed. But one thing I will admit to is saving people hundreds of thousands of dollars by identifying forgeries.
As davidbowie.com says - "you can only be sure if you witnessed the signature itself". However, I believe there are far more people that trust my opinion on authenticity of the only person that I study than disbelieve me.
PS - there are many forgeries of my COA's out there - always check with me via davidbowieauograph@mail.com
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Permalink Reply by Mikex on
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TP authentication is a money making exercise IMO. If you think you can be an expert in every autograph that ever existed, then you're wrong. TP quick opinions are a joke.
When I say TP, I exclude specialist authenticators.
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Permalink Reply by michelle on
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Just seen this thread. Andy Peters makes an important point re issue 2 and 3. The three major UK auction houses rely a lot on their past reputation, the old boy network is still alive and kicking and some of their knowledge in specific areas, not just autographs is actually week Originally this came as a big shock to me, but then I got used to it over the years.. A specialist authenticator would also be seen as a threat to third party authenticators ; - think of the number of fakes Andy has called out which third party authenticators had said were genuine and which may have resulted in refunds running into thousands of pounds
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Andy thanks for your response. I am new to this site but not new to autographs. I have been trying to find answers as to what is going on with the big 3 for a couple of years. Unfortunately, i am not real well connected. The information you have provided is kind of what i have been thinking. Makes more sense to me the 3rd party guys might look to you for assistance. Thank you for your help.
Matt
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