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Authenticity is Everything
Clark Gable?
Here's one I'd like to get an opinion on. It's a Gable signature on a Laszlo Willinger photo from a movie called "Strange Cargo." I've wondered about this one for a long time. I sent a photo of the autograph in to AutographCOA some time back for an online opinion. They said it was good. I'd still like to have some of your thoughts about it.
There is some guy selling copies of this exact same photo on eBay for about $10. It's the same identical signature in exactly the same spot as this signature. I've looked at this signature very closely under the lights. This signature was signed with a pen. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks Ladies and Gentlemen, Mike.ohotograph
Tags: Clark Gable
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Eddy, do you lean to some sort of facsimile or other (the OP)? Patrick says it looks "etched"...and the ink looks very odd and not struck in as usual.
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Do we have another unsigned 11x14 of this Gable image? Is there any cropping? And why no photographers stamp or other?
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It is a lithograph.
"This piece is a photolithograph from the original negative by Laszlo Willinger, original shot in 1938 and printed at a later date. It depicts actors, Clark Gable and Joan Crawford, who were known as the "The King and Queen of Hollywood". Upon meeting Gable for the first time, Crawford recalled, “it was like an electric current went through my body…my knees buckled…if he hadn’t held me by the shoulders, I’d have dropped.” This piece is hand signed by the photographer and numbered from the edition of 325 plus Artist Proofs. The sheet measures 22.5 x 22.5 inches and the image measures 20.5 x 21.35 inches."
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It would be good to know what process the OP was produced with. The side to side ratio is different from the artists signed AP's.
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So far, every original by this photographer I have seen is signed and usually with wide margins. Photographs and lithographs.
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Here is what appears to be the full original image. Nice rich range of tones.
Click for full image as usual.
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Permalink Reply by Eddy on
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Yeah....that Willenger image was used also on the original one sheet poster when the film came out in 1940. It's iconic and reproduced over and over again.
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Permalink Reply by Patrick Michael Bratcher on
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I'm certain that the photo I have is not 80 years old. I have come to realize by doing some research on the history of photopapers that it looks like it was printed in the 1950s.
Here to, once again I stand corrected. It is not an original first print Willenger photograph. It's a print which looks to be from the 1950s.
I can see that I'm going to start chosing my words a lot more carefully when writing listing descriptions. I usually do my listings about 2-3 oclock in the morning, when I'm half asleep.
Anyway, I think the photo is from the 50s. Now the question is: Is the autograph authentic or not. I'm gonna send it in to Beckett and let them decide.
Also, I will not be sending anymore autographs to AutographLive for opinions. Instead, I will send my questionables in for a hands-on authentication.
Also. I've started looking for books that will teach me about autograph authentications. There's a lot are fru fru out there. But there are a few out there may be very educational. I don't know yet, I'll have to dig deeper on them.
Also, that was a very interesting comment you made about ink changing color under the lights. I'm pretty certain that's what is happening with this Gable autograph. I look at it with the naked eye, it's black as tar. Under the lights it's red. Turn it under the lights, it changes colors.
The intentions on the autograph look like they were made with a ball point pen. It was signed by somebody. The unevenness of the pen indentation suggests to me that differing amounts of pressure were applied to the pen when the signature was written.
Also, I used the word "etched" earlier. That was a bad choice of words. The word is not etched. It is "indented"
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Eric -
On another note, you certainly know Bette Davis signatures well. What do you think of this one currently on offer? :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134379530920?hash=item1f49a4eaa8:g:-moAAOS...
One of our more knowledgeable members didn't seem to care for it when opinions were sought on it earlier in the week to try to determine authenticity:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/bette-davis-again
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I'm also a bit confused because the eBay listing says the Davis item comes with "autograph authentication from Rutland Autographs" but the AL thread linked above states: "I know for sure that I bought this one from a company called "Light-Camera-ActionUK.".
I'm not familiar with either either of those but both are in the UK. Are these one and the same dealership?
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Both have been discussed in these recent threads of Patrick's. Light-Camera etc. sells obvious forgeries and that was the "Vivien Leight" Patrick asked about which closed for $100. Rutland has very revealing Terms. I would not go near them. I do not think they are the same. Lights is an AFTAL RD.
I am not liking this all, again.
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