Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 6:42am

not possible with multiple thoughts, indentations and page breaks, harry.

e.g. if you look at Page 5 currently there are three separate discussions going on based on the comments - Richard and I are discussing "stupidity" -vs- "careless" but then;

Mike has responded to a different question that Simon posed only to be followed by what appears a reply from the 1st page (might be earlier comment but didn't reack it back thru the pages) where he inquires about nesting.)

Now add to that Aring's response of a few minutes ago which is most likely in reply to Simon's page 4 db comment.

that's why the threads become confusing as you can simply click something to follow the various threads within the threads.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 29, 2012 at 9:00pm

I'm BAAACK...have I missed anything?

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on April 30, 2012 at 9:18am

So back on topic....Does PSA's "signed in the presence" coas have the name and date of issue on the coa?  That would seem prudent since it is a seperate way to verify that the authenticator was on site as well as putting a true name behind the opinion.

Also, are the authenticator(s) actually standing back and watching / counting the customer's items being signed, or are they getting items signed too ( which would more than likely mean they were focused on their items).

Do they simply have a group authentication for the customers on-site? Is it open to anyone who was at that location ( why wouldn't it be right? ) If so, did the authenticator actually see each item signed? 

Maybe it should be " Witnessed signing" instead of "signed in the presence" It seems that the word presence is a little vague. Especially if the authenticator is at one part of a line and a customer is at the other end. 

Are the items all certified on-site, or are there ever any times when a collector leaves the location and gets the items certified later?

You really don't have to be an expert to do a true "signed in the presence" coa.  You just have to be a company rep whi is present while the item(s) are signed. It seems like these coas are better used at organized signings.

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 10:04am

Harry, I could not have said it better myself. That is why I started this thread.

Does not matter to me if this was the Humpty Dumpty Authentication Company or PSA.

If they are not standing right there and witnessing the signing than there is something very wrong with what is happening here.

But do they really care about something like this until they are called to task?

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 10:14am

I am not asking for perfect. I am asking for ethical. And if we don't know what is going on how do we know it is ethical.

Their past had an unethical episode in it. In person COA's issued to a dealer when the autograph was not witnessed. Not saying they are definitely doing it again, just would like to know. The appearance of impropriety is there, but we don't know the reality until we are told.

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 11:50am

Harry, that's the way I would look at it as well.  Unfortunately, we just don't know what the situation is.  If it is as Mike describes it then it is highly questionable regardless of who the obtainer is.

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 10:50am

"So back on topic....Does PSA's "signed in the presence" coas have the name and date of issue on the coa?  That would seem prudent since it is a seperate way to verify that the authenticator was on site as well as putting a true name behind the opinion."

 

The answer to that question is NO. There is a cert number but no name, no date of issue.

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 11:35am

This is what one of them looks like from a ITP COa for Harrison Ford

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 12:19pm

In the description write-up on ebay and "guaranteed authentic" on the coa itself which implies ITP.  U can probably see it a little bit better on this one.   Checked in with Coolwater and the only "private" signings for Harrison Ford were done on 3/2011 and October 2011 for both coolwater and celebrity.  Again, these were private signings.

here is another from Harrison Ford and it has the same location/signing date

from the seller's listings; This is a special auction, it has a ITP sticker on it from PSA which means it was signed in the presence of a PSA DNA representative.

 

incidently 3a87813, 14, 16, 17, 18 & 19 are also ITP Harrison Fords at the same location & date.  Looks to me like some sort of a private signing.

 3a87820 however is Oliva Munn who was at the same location but one day earlier;

Item: Photograph  Primary Subject: OLIVIA MUNN  Authentication Date: 07/22/2011 Authentication Location: San Diego, CA  Result/Grade: Authentic

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 12:45pm

Mike see the words in the above cert that says guarantees the authenticity?   Now go back thru and read simon's post on what PSA means when they say that.

here is what the typical PSA/DNA certs say on non ITP ones;

 

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 12:48pm

The only event if I recall correctly would have been San Diego Comic-Con which ran from Jul 21st - 24th.  Was Ford present at comic con and was there a PSA ITP rep present watching the signings or was it like the show I attended.?

From what I read;  Actors Harrison Ford and Calista Flockhart attend the Premiere of Universal Pictures "Cowboys & Aliens" during Comic-Con 2011 at San Diego Civic Theatre on July 23, 2011 in San Diego, California

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on April 30, 2012 at 10:40am

Here is the problem I can envision.

Harrison Ford and Clint Eastwood exit a hotel lobby at the same time.

Harrison goes to the left and starts to sign, Clint goes to the right and starts to sign.  The authenticator goes after Clint and does not witness the autographs being signed by Harrison.

Later, the authenticator certifies all of the Harrison autographs brought to him with a "signed in the presence" coa.  Was the authenticator actually in the presence?

Knowing if the items are certified as soon as they are signed is important too.  Is this the case?

Can the authenticator ALWAYS confirm that he witnessed each autograph that they are authenticating with this coa?

Mike Mentioned 100% certainty.  Is there 100% certainty?

 

 

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