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Why do so many dealers & Auctioneers still sell obvious secretarials?

There are a number of known secretarial autographs, that have been fairly common knowledge for many years. For example, the Jackie Gleason secretarial that the UACC did a story on about 20 years ago. But many auctions & dealers still sell the "Honeymooners" signed photos with the Gleason secretarial. . Apparently, Gleason didn't sign Anything himself via mail requests (like most celebrities) . Then there is the Jerry Lewis secretarial. They all seem to keep popping up in many of the autograph auctions. Now, I am not claiming these reputable dealers are incompetent as many sell such large quantities that secretarials are bound to get through.

But here is one current auction that has both a claimed in person Jerry Lewis and dean Martin photo and then they also have a Jerry Lewis signed check. Look at the Lewis signature on both and see if you think both were signed by the SAME person. The check is authentic. The photo has the same style signature I got when I wrote to Lewis's office many years ago. Note the major difference in how the "R's" are written in Jerry. This is pretty consistent in all the REAL Jerry Lewis in person signatures, contracts, checks, etc vs his mail request autographs.

I have included images for both items

Any thoughts?

Kevin

Celebrity autographs
vintage movie posters
Autographed sports memorabilia

Tags: autographs, celebrity, jerry, lewis, secretarial

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Lewis-Martin-sp-iconic.jpg, 36 KB
Lewis-check.jpg, 51 KB

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on April 22, 2010 at 6:18am

Bob,
I thnk you are correct, all reputable dealers should offer a lifetime gaurantee. But, I also think a reputable 3rd party authenticator adds another layer of credibility. If nothing else , it is an independent body, that has NO financial interest doing an objective analysis. The seller doesn't have that objectivity. If I have an autograph I have ANY doubt about I will send it to PSA or JSA, And, if it comes back NOT authentic I will NOT post it on my web site and will destroy it.

Kevin

celebrity autographs
movie posters
sports memorabilia

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on April 23, 2010 at 7:42pm

Bob,
I am not sure that will ever be possible. Are you implying that PSA or JSA guarantee the value of the autograph itself? If so, how could a service guarantee the cost of the autograph? Or do you mean that PSA or JSA should refund the cost of the cert fee? If that’s what you are referring, I agree. If a PSA cert item is later deemed not authentic , by a “higher authority” they should indeed refund the fee. Now, that addresses the cost argument. I still contend that a reputable 3rd certification is the best we have right now. And, my own opinion of a “reputable 3rd certification” is based on my own tracking of thousands of certified autographs. And, based on my own tracking PSA and JSA have been far more accurate then say GAI or Online Authentics, all eBay approved. NONE of these services are perfect, it is impossible because humans are doing the work. Same as if you have a doctor who is not as highly skilled as another, he may make a critical error the other one would have caught (this scenario has happened to me and literally saved my eye sight because my friend insisted I get a second opinion from another eye surgeon she recommended). . But, I have found a fraction of the mistakes with JSA and PSA compared to some of these other authentication services. I would estimate that 95-99% of the JSA items I see look solidly authentic.

There is a nasty rouge dealer (who I will not name) who dedicates his blog to attacking JSA and PSA. WHY? Because they are the BEST and it gives him a forum by attacking those at the top. He never goes after the less skilled , even more outrageous incompetent authenticators and forensic experts because it would be like picking on the “little guy”. (he even sympathizes with them)

I will tell you this. I am also a serious movie poster collector and dealer and we have ZERO authentication standards within that industry. It is like a wild west industry with no accountability or standard policies. The result was a recent major discovery of very high end Universal Horror forgeries. And, what makes it worse is in the movie poster forums and list servs, the major dealers have no motivation to establish an authentication standard or policy. A couple of us have tried to get a dialogue going in the subject. But, little or no interest.

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on April 23, 2010 at 9:20pm

Bob,
At the risk of sounding pompous, I am confident I have a "better eye" then most of these professional authenticators. Primarily on autographs I have specialized in over the past 30 years collecting, like Sinatra, Garland, Hepburn. Bogart and many vintage stars. I ONLY sell what I know, that's why you'll see on my site I have a very narrow inventory compared to most other dealers. If I don't have experience and expertise in a certian signature I don't offer it. That's why you don't see any contemporary autographs on my site. I write about the subject here:
http://www.cvtreasures.com/our-lifetime-guarantee-page-5

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Permalink Reply by Nancy C on April 21, 2010 at 9:21pm

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Permalink Reply by Nancy C on April 21, 2010 at 9:27pm

Tons of Lost cast signed photos authenticated by Justin Priddy of Autograph Certification Experts (ACE)

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOST-CAST-SIGNED-11x14-COLOR-PHOTO-FULL-LETTER-...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160408195805

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390153504711

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390151867169

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Permalink Reply by Nancy C on April 21, 2010 at 9:51pm

Tons of fake Michael Jackson autographs from Iconic Memorabilia Auctions authenticated by ACE (Justin Priddy); the authentic ones were authenticated by PSA or JSA and the fake ones were authenticated by ACE

http://www.iconicmemorabilia.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=23687...

http://www.iconicmemorabilia.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=23688...

http://www.iconicmemorabilia.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=23692...

http://www.iconicmemorabilia.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=23693...

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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on April 24, 2010 at 8:08pm

This is UNBELIEVABLE!!!! These guys at History Direct have the gall to sell autographs at TEN times value. Now they post a Frank Sinatra photo for $5000 that IS NOT EVEN AUTHENTIC by any stretch of the imagination!. Is there ANY neophyte collector that does NOT know this is a OBVIOUS BLATANT Secretarial.. GOOD GRIEF!!! Has History Direct even seen the Sinatra signature study??
See for yourself...
http://cgi.ebay.com/FRANK-SINATRA-PHOTOGRAPH-SIGNED-/300257339643

OHH how about another OBVIOUS secretariall FAKE for $5000!
http://cgi.ebay.com/FRANK-SINATRA-TYPED-LETTER-SIGNED-02-19-1949-/3...