Sidebar discussion to Questions on Music Items from Autographica:

On March 14, 2012, a discussion was started on ACAF (Autograph Collectors Against Forgeries) on the authenticity of some items offered by Mark Mclennan, eBay seller www-authenticateit-co-uk: http://acogb.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=541.0.

Mclennan is the principal founder of AFTAL and owns two AFTAL dealerships, Authenticate It and Sport and Star Autographs Ltd. 

An ACAF member asked about autographs Mclennan was selling, one of them a signed Queen album. The discussion took a disappointing turn, one that most members in the discussion had a hard time believing. Join ACAF to read the entire 5 page discussion.

This is an excerpt from the discussion. A few minor comments by members who weren't at the core of the discussion were removed to save space:

LegendsOf66

Is this person really approved by AFTAL to offer an authentication service?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Authentication-Service-Signed-Autographs-...

Bourne4graffs

They are on the AFTAL dealer list at #3

http://www.aftal.org.uk/dealers.php

LegendsOf66

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bobby-Moore-vintage-West-Ham-1966-SIGNED-...

The only person that i'd believe if told that is genuine would be Bobby himself.
I dont know anything about Queen autographs but does that look right to people that do?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Queen-Freddie-Mercury-Deacon-Taylor-May-V...

authenticateit

Not only is Authenticateit AFTAL approved, they are the founders of AFTAL, but then if you would have read the notes you could have seen that,

"Bobby Moore", if its for sale its authentic, if you got silly comments like "The only person that i'd believe if told that is genuine would be Bobby himself" please email me direct if you got views on any of my items, with your credentials in passing such comments on items, other then that you are really just embarrassing yourself , the fact that one of AFTALs board members Dave Davies has the biggest Moore collections in the country and i would say a speicalist in that field, has deemed it authentic, then i would say thats good enough, would you?

Queen Album RR Auction, Roger Epperson COA, good enough?

Marc Mclennan
Authenticateit
Sport & Star Autograph
AFTAL Founder & Board Member
authenticateituk@aol.com

LegendsOf66

"Bobby Moore", if its for sale its authentic? Looks pretty clear that its been traced to me, and on close inspection, traced slowly, so funnily enough I don't feel embarrassed at all!

As for the Queen item, to my knowledge they didn't all suffer from Dyslexia. 

Just before I get back to the day job fella, I suppose the 2 below were also signed by the same person? Enough said.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lennard-Pearce-Jason-Lyndhurst-Only-Fools...

http://shortographs.comyr.com/web_images/nicholas_lyndhurst.jpg

authenticateit

you really are an embrarassment to all collectors, and just the type to give fourms like this a bad name, i just hope the mods see sence and remove you, 

enough said, like i said stick to the day job, 100% bet its not selling graphs! 

MGM

authenticateit

YOU REALLY A 100% NOB! if you are really big enough to give it large, then pick the phone up, my life ledendsof66 another wannabe
two bob nobody, so come on, who are you then, or are you not quite big enough to give your full details you need this fourm to hide behind a made up name, yes thought so,

you know who i am, ring me

MGM

authenticateit

LegendsOf66 ? but you sell toys! ? what the hell do you know about graphs? what are you even doing on here?

well you have gave all the AFTAL board a good laugh.

LegendsOf66

I'm giving it the large? and I quote 'YOU REALLY A 100% NOB!' - 'two bob nobody' - 'you really are an embrarassment to all collectors'<sic> - 'are you not quite big enough to give your full details' - 'what the hell do you know about graphs?' 

Sorry, I clearly made a mistake, I was under the impression this was an autograph forum? I asked a simple question after seeing someone offering to authenticate autographs AFTAL approved whilst listing some very suspect looking autographs themselves. Good luck with the anger management classes any way!

authenticateit

Ok lets do this right, yes i suffer from anger, because i got to share the same air space with the likes sof you...

on behalf of the fourm, whats your credentials in giving opinions on autographs? simple question?

so far on this fourm you have rubbished Rogger Epperson maybe one of the most repected music authenticators in the world!

Dave Davies 1996 agent, specialist in 1966 autographs! and AFTAL Chairman

The OFAH society, who not only authenticated the ONLY Fools page but wanted to buy it!

as i said your an embrarassment, lets see how many back you up on here....starting from now!

i cant find one autograph you have bought or sold under your eBay name, but your good enough to rubbish well repected dealers.

yes i did bite, and i know others will say i should have let it go, but the ones who know me, just know i wont do that!

MGM

LegendsOf66

Why are you now making stuff up? Its like speaking to a child, how I have so far rubbished Dave Davis and Rogger Epperson! I said I don't think the Bobby Moore autograph is authentic, that may mean I have a difference of opinion with someone that thinks otherwise, and that would be on the basis they have actually properly examined it. It doesn't mean I personally rubbished them at all! 

'as i said your an embrarassment, lets see how many back you up on here....starting from now!' ? How very adult and mature!

authenticateit

did you dipute the queen album? yes, authenticated by Roger Epperson, you made a silly comment regarding its authentisaty, did you not?

The OFAH page? the Bobby Moore, all these items examined by experts, so no you dont have an opinion, unless you want to put your thoughts in writing giving your full details, which of course you wont..

and yes a re-cap, because i think you forgot to answer,

on behalf of the fourm, whats your credentials in giving opinions on autographs? simple question?

i think you should back off fella, you have now gone well past the embarrassing stage, and your not doing very well.

MGM

LegendsOf66

Yes, and I still do question the Queen, Bobby, & Only Fools item, but in an adults mind that doesn't mean I personally rubbished someone that in believes otherwise.
On behalf of the forum? Its not on the behalf of the forum at all, nobody else has said anything. 
Sorry, but after your previous bizarre childlike rants I have no interest in answering any of your questions, so please rant on about toys, my day job, being a nob.............. or anything else you fancy.

authenticateit

you must have been bullied in the playground as a kid! sorry i mean you must be bullied in the playground.

look, im here for all to see, im happy to stand up and defend my corner, im more then happy to take this all the way, then when you proved wrong everyone can see, will you put in writing with your full details regarding the views on the said items? AND GET SOMEONE TO BACK UP WHAT YOUR SAYING!

your 100% wrong on all counts, if you think your right, then be a man, and be known, you cant hide behind a fourm, you want to have a dig at the big boys, then fine...

on behalf of the fourm, whats your credentials in giving opinions on autographs? simple question? still not been answered!

lets go legal and get it sorted, please give your full details..i dont expect you to do it on here, email me, im sure with the amount of noise you have made someone will give you up..

speak soon 

MGM

koploper

I certainly would not advise going legal Marc. Legendsof66 has expressed an opinion on two of your items.

I am no expert on Bobby Moore or Queen autographs but there are a few items I would not buy looking through your current and finished Ebay sales. In my opinion I don't like the Nelson Mandela, I consulted a Bond expert on the Ian Fleming which he did not like and those vintage album pages just don't look right to my eyes.   

LegendsOf66

Wrong again Mark but going by the previous nonsense angry ramblings I'd guess you was either bullied or a bully.

As a founder member of AFTAL, do you not think you should be setting an example instead of acting like some angry hormonal teenager? 

I own BobbyMoore.co.uk and have quite a large 1966 collection myself and have done for quite a few years. I have most likely dealt in more Bobby Moore autographs than yourself over the years so I do have a rough idea as to what he's signature should look like, and you can get as angry and as aggressive as you like but that autograph doesn't look right and in my opinion looks like its been traced, and going on the lack of people jumping in to defend it I'd say I'm not the only one. My opinion on the Queen item was based quite simply on the fact all 4 autographs look like they have been been signed by someone with writing difficulties and after doing a little research I certainly still think the same.

'Lets go legal'? Over a question and an opinion on an autograph on a public autograph forum? Doesn't really warrant a reply does it. I'll shut up now and get back to selling toys?!! I've clearly embarrassed myself enough and am clearly out of my league questioning big boys!

authenticateit

Koploper

Thank you for your polite post, i am always happy to take an opinion on board, when addressed in the correct way, but i have not spent 25 years in this trade to be poked at by someone with the altitude, you have seen today, and i apologise for the members who have had to log on here and see such bitter exchange by two people, but if i have something to defend as i believe i did today then i will not stop even if it takes legal action to stop that person making comments that are not true, being it just expressed opinions or not. 

Those of you that know me, know i what i do to make sure that everything on sale is beyond doubt in my opinion authentic. and i am shocked at some of the items you suggest are not good to the eye , when i know where they have come from, this particular collection we are selling at the moment has come from some of the best sellers and deemed authentic by some of the best authenticators around. so are all these respected sellers such as RR auctions wrong? that's why i ask people with opinions on items such as important as these to put it in writing.

it is not a personal opinion when you express yourself on a forum such as this, you are putting doubt in someone's mind, many of these items have also been seen by a lot of your long term members and AFTAL dealers who i am afraid do not share your same thoughts.

you cannot doubt an autograph 100% simply by looking at a scan, so i invite anyone to my offices to inspect items in person before any more opinions are given on this forum, do you agree?

In fact here is a suggestion, i invite one of you most trusted members and AFTAL board members Garry King, and i know he is quite aware of this thread
to inspect the items you are suggest are not good to the eye, and i am quite happy for him to then post back on here his findings.

and i will email Garry now and suggest the same, your thoughts? i am leaving myself wide open now, but know i am 100% correct along with the other respected authenticators you have cast doubt on, i will of course pass on your comments, but i am afraid i very much doubt they will care what this forum thinks.

The Bond expert you consulted, are you happy to give his details? 

regards

MGM

authenticateit

i know exactly who you are, and belivie me the comments coming back to me today are not that good to the ears, Boobymoore.com ? what and that makes you an expert, i got spitfire.com but i did not fly planes in the war?

if your so sure you are correct, will you put your thoughts in weitting to me direct? and again my invite goes out to you to inspect the moore in person, traced! but then if Garry King comes to the office he can advise you how wrong you are, or would you not also take his word?

MGM

Autograph

Hi Marc,

AFTAL is a wonderful organization. I consider it the model of what a dealer organization should be. Thank you for being a founder.

With all due respect, though, I understand LegendsOf66's concerns regarding the Queen album in question:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Queen-Freddie-Mercury-Deacon-Taylor-May-V...

I question it myself, so when you said it was sold by RRAuction and authenticated by Roger Epperson, I searched RR's archives and couldn't find it. Could you please post the link or tell me about when you bought it and I'll look again?

Thanks,

Steve Cyrkin
Editor & Moderator
http://live.autographmagazine.com

authenticateit

Hi Steve

Queen Album RR Auction, Roger Epperson COA, good enough? 

Roger Epperson who authentcaites for RR, if you take a look back on RR past auctions and what roger has looked at, you will find comparisons that without doubt compare to the one on sale. a lot of the other items from that same collection come from RR.

what i was expressing would a Epperson COA be good enough? 

i will send the item over to Roger tomorrow, and get back to you.

Thanks Steve, 
MGM

LegendsOf66

So after all that name calling and the totally bizarre responses to what was clearly a genuine and valid query, hence why others have now also questioned them, Roger Epperson hasn't actually authenticated that item at all, he has merely looked at other items that compare to the one in question! - 'yes, authenticated by Roger Epperson' Brilliant!! 

Autograph

Hi Marc,

Roger is in South Africa until Monday, but I asked him to look at your Queen album before he left. I'm sorry to say Roger didn't think it was real, so you may want to get an online opinion before spending the money to ship it to him. I also asked him to check your Beatles set, Jimi Hendrix, Elton John and Whitney Houston, and he felt they weren't genuine either, sorry. Some of these were under your closed auctions.

Marc, I started getting complaints about Cameo Auctioneers a few months ago (http://www.cameo-auctioneers.co.uk/) and was shocked by all the forgeries they sold, many of them authenticated by your firm, AuthenticateIt. I was shocked, because I have the deepest respect for AFTAL, but a member of my site said he contacted you and you told him that they were fake COAs, or something to that effect. I breathed a sigh of relief and left it at that.

But the other day I was alerted about Cameo's recently closed February auction and went to Cameo and was deeply concerned with what I saw being offered with your COAs. Then I couldn't believe my eyes: 

Cameo announced they were partnering with AuthenticateIt.

That's when I did a search for other AuthenticateIt certifications and found your eBay listings. What I saw caused me concern, too.

I was going to write you and AFTAL's president privately. But after I heard that you claimed here that RRAuction sold that Queen album and Roger Epperson authenticated it, I joined this site to set the record straight. 

You may have founded AFTAL, but you don't deserve to be a member.

Steve Cyrkin
Editor & Moderator
Autograph Magazine Live!
http://live.autographmagazine.com

Frank Castle

The item that I was watching was the following I would really like to know the providence behind it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Muhammad-Ali-SIGNED-AUTOGRAPH-UACC-AFTAL-...

and I am not 100% on this item either
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Max-Schmeling-Heavyweight-Boxing-VINTAGE-...

authenticateit

I will make an apology not to one person but to the forum as a whole, this is not the way I normally conduct business, but unfortunately on this occasion I reacted in a way where on another day maybe I would have said nothing, Gavin - Led gendOf66 had a opinion and I should of approached him in a different way, a bad day just got worse! I am sure myself and Gavin can pick up on our differences another day.

AFTAL later today will be posting a statement hopefully then we can all move on, in the mean time items that have been questioned have today been again examined and advice taken on the items.

In 24 years I have NEVER has an item returned regarding its authenticity that is a fact, so forgive me if it sticks in my throat when all of a sudden items in the manner it was done get questioned.

The only Fools and Horses page to which Gavin questioned today (again) was taken to Perry  from the OFAH society and he has passed the item authentic, in fact so he has asked if he could put it on his site,
The Bobby Moore Page has been taken from sale until it has again been examined, but as it stands I still believe the item to be authentic.

The Queen album to which I wrongly quoted as being authenticated by Roger, my mistake, the item was closely examined against items Roger has deemed authentic in the past, and if he was to deem this item not to be authentic then I really would have concerns with Queen items that RR have sold in the past, but again I stand by the item and in my opinion feel it to be genuine, but until I have heard from Roger directly I have removed it from sale.

I would ask if anyone in the future has any doubts concerning items on the authenticateit site please contact me direct with your concerns and reasons, and I will always reply authenticateituk@aol.com.

Please bare in mind athenticateit’s ebay store is used as a selling platform, selling collections on behalf of vendors so it is just important to me that the items are 100% authentic

Finally there have been concerns over an auction house “Cameo” who in the past we have done work for, in fact we have not done any work for them since late last year, yet we have been made aware that they in recent auctions are still claiming that their items come with Authenticateits COAs. Please be aware this is not true, we no longer issue COAs for Cameo’s items.  If you have one of these COAs or indeed know of anyone that has concerns, again please ask then to email me direct.
Our new COAs have embossed letter heads, and Cameo COAs will not have this feature so would be void.

MGM

authenticateit

This concerns Steve Cyrkin & Roger Epperson, i ask so who is perfect?

http://www.ripoffreport.com/hobby-shops/roger-epperson/roger-eppers...

MGM

authenticateit

And it gets worse!

http://www.autographnewslive.com/showthread.php?517-CRIMINAL-PSYCHI...

http://www.ripoffreport.com/directory/Roger-Epperson.aspx

Ok this is all about the person who said the Queen album is not authentic, and i admit i used his examples to authenticate the autographs, who is a Queen expert?

MGM

authenticateit

I am just so shocked that Steve Cyrkin had the audaity to come on here last night and qestion me when behind the scenes he has his own problems, at least Gavin, Ledgendsof66 is white as white! so repect to you fella!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=steve%20cyrkin&...

MGM

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Join ACAF to read the entire discussion: http://acogb.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=541.0