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What is exact proof and is it always 100% Genuine ?

So guys there seems to be a slight problem on what exact proof means.

Also people are selling 1000 autographs witn 1 single proof photo because they could only snap one photo from the talent when they paid him a small fortune so is this wrong can you trust them or not ?

I hope I can try and explain every question but they will all end towards the same answer, above all the only way you can guarantee yourselfs a happy merry ending is by buying from some one you completely trust.

THE DEALER is the person you need to trust , What I mean is every dealer in the world including myself can be screwed over at any point , I have been screwed by Stevie Wonder for example I went to get his autograph they said to me wait a minute let him get on the coach and then we will come and take your vinyl, I waited outside the Lowry Hotel in manchester he got on his coach then his brother came took the vinyl got on the coach so I went to the side of the coach and saw him sign the albums for stevie wonder and Thats a Fact , Stevie was seating at the far back of the coach past the middle section were the bar and the tables were, His bro only went behind the driver at a table and done the signing.

Now the question here is what did I do with them ?

Well I took spray out rubbed the graffs and gave the vinyls to the charity shop and that is the last time I went for stevie wonder, Now I remember10 years ago at the Savoy hotel we used to be able to walk up to him and with the help of his brother who would help and direct his hand you would get a stevie wonder autographs even though it was a 50% him 50% his bro it was the closest you could get to an autograph by him.

So what am trying to say is many people left that day from that bus experience with autographs, Knowing they were not stevie wonders but choose to play the game different, I know some that sold the vinyls on ebay they took a picture of Stevie walking towards them and used it as proof , and you know what they got 200 bucks for it too.

So now an IN PERSON will tell you it is not always possible to have exact proof it can be over in 3 seconds by then you dont have time to even blink never mind take a photo, Sometimes you are in a place were the guards are waiting for you to make that mistake so they can throw u out etc ,

Now the same thing will be said for the Big Time dealers that do the private signings, If they pay for lets say HULK HOGAN to seat down and sign 1.000 items they cant snap at every item they will take 2 or 3 photos and they will use those to sell the 1.000 items.

So what is the difference here ?

The dealer is the difference , The one person you trust and the other you do not , You trust the dealer that has paid and he feels he is providing a service and he has a long job that he dont want to destroy by just selling 1000 autographs he wants to sell 1.000.000 !!

Now once again it don't mean that the guy that is a big time dealer can't be tricked ? he can too , By an agent of a star or a manager , I have experienced this too I know of a famous story of some one who brings boxers to signings that after its all done and dusted a few months later when he was asked for new stock he actually the manager signed some and send them out to dealers , Now who is the bad guy here ?

Well its not the dealer that bought the items how can he be ? All he did is called the agent paid for items that he felt were real and got screwed for it , You cant blame him can you he TRUSTED some one who should have been HONEST but wanted to pocket the whole sum of cash and not the smaller cut.

So what am trying to say here guys is Any person at any time can get screwed because we always need to TRUST someone , so when you decide to buy from some one you make sure that the person you are buying from is a genuine nice guy that also believes in the code and if he ever got screwed he would put his hands up and say you know what , Am sorry I never knew all I did is what I do every day I bought an item that was suppose to be genuine , I apologise and here is your money sir or madam.

For me this is how I choose the peolple I trust and I would back up the person that I know deep down is a good honest person and not some one who is gonna say or make a problem when asked or been told that there is a chance the item is fake.

Now also there are 100s of times that people do get it wrong there are too many people that they think they know it all and sometimes they F%$K Up and could cause s*** for no reason , But this is the nature of the game if the reputation of the person is gold and the person who sold the item knows the other person is wrong am sure he will deal with it a nice manner and prove that maybe who ever suggested the item is fake is actually wrong.

There is a dealer In New York who has sold 100s of thousands of us dollars he sells more fakes than anyone in the world Stallone, Ali , and many other High end people never ever seen anything like it , its crazy the guy takes photos of other people with stars and photoshops his head in the photos he puts product in their hands this is F%$£D UP.

Believe it or not its there the guy has become a millionare from selling fakes and where is he ? he is still there doing better than honest people because ebay and the world web gives him the millions of clients that dont have a clue about autographs.

I was a rock singer in the 90s had albums out and when it all ended, I wanted to start a bar like hard rock or planet hollywood so I went and bought 1000 bucks worth of autographs only to find out they were all fakes , This did 2 things to me it made me hate Fakers to a point of extreme views towards them and also made me go out there and try and obtain every single item myself. It kinda made me to what I am.

I know why we all hate those scumbags because at some point in our lives we all got screwed over some how , Am lucky this was 15 years or so ago in my life but it is happening to some one else right now as am writing this message.

Unfortunetlly autographs are never ending problem and it will never go away but its the same with any bussiness that generates money.

THE DEALER is the most important person in the puzzle as importand as the autographs.

Jason Thanos

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on November 2, 2012 at 9:48am

Great stuff guys nice chat.

Rich Viola you are right there is loads and I know this but they are not too many Jodeci is my good friend Randolph Chiang from Vancoover and Friendly stranger is my other buddy from Toronto this 2 guys are the best in canada with no one even close and their both in my team every year when we hunt at the Toronto Film Fesival.

But this guys are a minority , My buddy in New york also Nick who owns Authentic Signings is another top name he does everything to help the buyer feel secure , But once again only very few people in this game.

We are now going to extreme lengths to try and prove to the buyer we are genuine because ebay has bread all this fakers by the millions , every actor and musician you meet they call you an ebayer this website has screwed the whole industry its on its knees for sure.

In regards to exact proof I have loads too but I try not to use too often as even that has been stolen in the past, One of the most famous Fakers in the UK who has floaded the world market and now I believe he supplies all the australians his name is Lawson Slater once stole a proof photo and snapped SLASH signing a guitar for me it was a painting called SKULL AND BONES he took the photo then went home and bought a guitar that looked same as mine and drew the sketch that SLASH did for me, So one day I get a message telling me whats the best price I can do for the Guitar on ebay , I am like WTF what guitar ? He said the gibson you holding that slash is signing for you ? I am like what ?

Anyway it was LAWSON SLATER he is so famous in europe he is like ELVIS but with a sharpie.

Anyway there are too many of this con man. Sorry about the Boxing New York guy there is already a huge thread on acaf as this was huge news for us before there are articles all over the net about this as I think he got find 3.000.000 us dolars but still trades, So as soon as I find it i will show you a shocker ..

Guys thanks for the compliments by the way , Am not saying i am a saint or a role model , I am just some one who is trying really hard to play fair , But one thing is for sure I would never ever sell a fake knowingly , Unless I get screwed by a friend etc, So I try to avoid this by simply going all over the world doing what I do all the time..

I will find info on the NY guy i promise

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on November 2, 2012 at 9:55am

Rich take a guess who is talking to U2 while their signing that 7 inch vinyl and take a guess who is holding it too ?

Yes thats me lol but I exchange them with Randy, who is jodeci.

His prices are crazy but he delivers a piece of mind he does not rack people he gets maybe one or two items but gets exact proof and gives it so the person that buys it can not have any doubt in the future.

Very trustworthy guy in the autographs he dont do it 7 days a week as he is a pap but when he does he is solid.

Those u2 vinyls were signed at the back of the Elgin theatre after the premiere of the film later that night we went to their party which was the opening night party of Tiff

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Permalink Reply by Rich on November 2, 2012 at 10:01am

Jason, actually a huge thanks for confirming that Jodeci is legit. I saw nothing to suggest otherwise, but just wanted to be sure. And, in all fairness, I know IP collectors go through great pains to be successful - and I did notice that Jodeci takes best offers :)

I actually bring up that seller because they have an item I've been looking at that actuall does benefit from the exact proof, considering the erratic nature of the signer's autograph and surprising lack of nice IP examples. I'm a bit closer to making an offer now that you've vouched for them. Ha

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 2, 2012 at 9:59am

Jason,

Who's the big US dealer you were talking about in another discussion that was kicked out of Autographica or another big show in the UK for selling forgeries? What's the story? I know the one you mentioned to me before, but he only has one office as far as I know.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on November 2, 2012 at 10:19am

Steve I wont name him but I can tell you the story if that is ok with you.

So I personally did not know him or never heard of him and to be honest I dont go looking for other dealers etc not enough time to do this s***, Only reason why am on here this days is I have an iphone and on a stakeout I kill some time when I can.

Anyway the show was In london it was not autographica it was another show.

So I was doing this convention and I passed through a stall and when I saw some items it caught my eye so I stopped and looked and I just saw a wall of s*** it was crazy , I was like whatttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt in slow motion.

Anyway I called the organisers and I called Gary King as he was in aftal and Uacc and I said I want you to drive tomorrow to london , Gary said why I said cause I want you to back me in this matter , This is so wrong. So A UK in person dealer called Barry , and another IP the organisers 2 of them and Gary King all came to the stall. I showed them examples and variations of signatures I showed them how the autographs should flow were they should start and were finish etc.

Now before some one says we know they dont always sign the same etc , I know this very well am there every day getting that crap.

But this time it was too easy to prove, Anyway then the organisers went into a star ward folder and took out 10 George Lucas photos all signed in the same spot on and all the same photo he said right this are wrong, This guy has the biggest collection in star wars he is a multy millionare by the way so even though I knew I let him talk, Then we saw some other autographs of guests that have been to the shows and the graffs were all wrong .

In the end they said to me you are more an expert on Stallone, Pattinson blah blah than we are , and what you have shown us does say that this are wrong.

So the organisers said thanks and thats it he is not allowed to book in the shows in the UK again. Thats it.

The problem is that after a while I found out the reason that lad was there was too collect money form 2 or 3 other dealers he supplied and the funny thing is I had thrown out a show the year before 1 of those 3 dealers ..

Now the way i see it , its simple this person is not IN PERSON he dont collect but has runners for him and this is were it gets stupid. I found out many other details after that but I dont really care as I had no reason to persue things any further , My problem was I found it cheecky that some one would come in my face and sell s***.

I was told how can I possibly know more since I leave in manchester Uk and he leaves in LA or LAS VEGAS and has offices there , he did not know of me but he did fimd out as some of his agents even saw me in toronto , La etc .

But all this was years ago at list 4 or 5 anyway. He said he thought the items were real , that was his opinion and I had mine. One of us was right maybe him maybe me , I had my views and I acted on what I saw .

The thing that ticked me the most were the 16 X 12 Large Twilight robert Pattinson pitch black photos signed in Silver and full autographs , The autographs were the same as when he signed in Manchester at a convention before he went to twilight, The strange thing is that the spelling and the flow was wrong .

But all this are just Opinions at the end of the day all of us here all we have are opinions , But in the case of the NEW YORK guy this is different that guy photoshops photos he changes them to sell fake gear thats a total different game.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on November 2, 2012 at 3:31pm

Jason

So its not just in the UK we have fakes then ?

Sorry forum I was being flippant

sad to hear mate

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Permalink Reply by DB on November 2, 2012 at 10:18am

Anthony Risi from what I understand is also a NY IP grapher who appears to have very good feedback.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on November 2, 2012 at 10:25am

Rich seriously the guy is clean , He comes from a healthy background and is not poor, Just tell him to give you a discount and drop mu name in it if you want.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on November 2, 2012 at 10:34am

Thanks! I'm still contemplating, as I already have a few authentic autos from this musician (one in person actually), but this is a particulalrly nice one with impressive rock solid proof. I'm very tempted to add to my collection.