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George Harrison real or fake???

A while back I decided to give Mike Frost from P.A.A.S. a chance to authenticate a few of my Beatles autographs. He was significantly cheaper than many of the other authenticators and I had seen his EBay auction a number of times. I decided to send him this mid 70's Harrison autograph which, in my opinion, is pretty cut and dry a genuine autograph. To my disbelief he responded saying that autograph was in fact NOT authentic! Along with this signature I sent him others as well which he deemed as not genuine. I felt terrible knowing that these were real and I was just taken for my money to the tune of $400.00+ dollars. After I received the signatures I did the only thing one could do. I mailed them off to Frank Caiazzo for a true authentication. As expected, the autograph was indeed authentic. I felt a little more vindication when I found out that his authentication services were puled from EBay. BUT! I just ran across another one of his ebay auctions trying to lure unknowing patrons to use his services for Beatles autographs! I was as you can imagine quite peeved. In my opinion, I would stay as far away from a Mike Frost PAAS Beatles authentication as possible. It is my belief that he has no clue what is real and what is not and I would advise to save your money and go with someone more reputable in this business. Take a look at the example for yourself and you be the judge!!!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on November 13, 2012 at 3:10pm

So apparently it was that simple. I think that shows a good job of what people are all about. Its also very funny that Steve is actually Jewish, yet this Anti Semetic crap keeps coming up. Im not saying you cant be forgiven Mike, what im saying is that no one is going to forget, and if they do they can search this site and see more examples than can be counted to refresh their memory. If Steve can forgive you for the above then good for him. But i myself (and i know many other collectors feel the same as well) have a very short list of people that i trust with autographs. And once you get marked off that list, their is no coming back. I may be missing out on a great company with a new outlook on things, but my experience in all aspects of life is that history repeats itself. But i am the first to admit that i could be completely wrong, and for collectors sake, i certainly hope i am in this instance.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on November 13, 2012 at 3:41pm

Ahhhh! The Golden Days.

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Permalink Reply by Hitch1010 on November 13, 2012 at 3:56pm

I agree with you Carl. Once a jerk, always a jerk.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on November 13, 2012 at 4:02pm

Steve,

Once again I apologize but this was not based solely upon the ebay story. I believe you know what was meant by the death in this context. I then removed it almost immediately after realizing that it was not the right thing to say, but I had heard enough and had asked you many time to stop. Steve at this time you and AML members were posting many stories that were not true about myself and P.A.A.S.

We really did not know each at all and I was receiving negative daily write ups and I was being called the authenticated for American Royal Arts and that I was a rubber stamp authenticator. You also wrote that 90% of all items authenticated by P.A.A.S. were forgeries. I am no longer angry and I do understand that I was guilty by association, but these were all lies made up to hurt my business. Autograph Authentication is my full time business and livelihood, I support my family with this business. I have been studying autographs and I full time autograph dealer for almost 38 years now. I am very honest and have always took authentication very serious. I am very very good at autograph authentication, investigation and examinations. I spend a lot of time on each and every examination and do take pride in my work.

I felt that my livelihood was been threatened by you simply because of my associations with others that were threatening your livelihood and printing lies and negative comments about Roger and yourself.

This really had nothing to do with the ebay matter, it was going on for months prior to that event.

I am no longer involved with any of the negativity in the hobby and I have always said that the fighting and the time wasted between the gangs was loved by the real enemy "The Forgers". They were adding fuel to the fire and making big bucks while these blogs were being used as a defense for there credibility.

Could we hold off on this until I finish with my George Harrison examination explanation. This is distracting from the story and should be moved out of this discussion.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on December 20, 2012 at 8:20am

When was this posted (what year)?

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on December 20, 2012 at 8:16am

People can and do change, often in major ways. I understand your analogy but it is not correct 100% of the time.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 13, 2012 at 8:26am

eBay allows the new design PAAS COAs and LOAs. Mike can post examples of the designs and the beginning date of the LOAs allowed. The start date is around May 2012. Prior ones are still not allowed, but eBay isn't equipped to automatically police them.

Mike may have a recertification program for older PAAS certifications. I haven't asked.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on November 13, 2012 at 2:56pm

We did make some changes on or Letters of Authenticity but that was for counterfeit reasons. The new certificates are on a special marked paper that would be default to copy and the color of the Certificate is not common. We also made a much sharper and stronger logo. Each certificate would match the numbered acid free hologram attached to the item. I do also prefer the backs of the photos especially on vintage photos. We do not certify any item that is in a frame or encapsulated. We do not certify any item via scan, each and every item certified by P.A.A.S. is physically examined. I personally hand sign every certificate and each item is entered into our data base by certificate number. We also have made new P.A.A.S. Postcard certificate for auction houses or dealers that submit 15+ items with a retail value of under $140 per item.

Our older P.A.A.S. certificates and authentications are allowed on ebay, but I do a daily viewing of the items and listing to confirm the authenticity of the item and the COA.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on November 13, 2012 at 9:00am

P.A.A.S. is not banned from eBay and does have a good working relationship with eBay. The removal of P.A.A.S. certificates was for about 2 months and there were issues seperate from authentication. There were some authentication issues that were of concern to ebay and there were some correction made on my part. There was also some legal issues with my website, P.A.A.S. advertising, and testimonial's that had to be corrected. There was concerns about my use of negative blogs and my agenda, that was also corrected and explained. The final factor was counterfeited certificates and holograms being used on ebay, I was able to address this have them removed in the most part from ebay. I am not trying to make excuses, but there were many factors involved at the time for the removal of P.A.A.S. Certificates from ebay. Thanks to the support and help of many respected members of the autograph community P.A.A.S. was allowed back on eBay.

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Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on November 13, 2012 at 9:03am

thanks for explaining. once again my bad.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on November 13, 2012 at 9:25am

I would like to as promised explain my thoughts and concerns with this discussion and with the George Harrison examination and authentication for Xperttexpert Scott Kroll. I was not wanting to be aggressive nor angry but I had a problem with the one sided negative comments and explication that started this discussion on Autograph Magazine Live.

I believe that Scott did not think that I had any excess to the discussion and never thought that he would be made accountable for his negative comments. The night before this discussion was started on AML, I received an anonymous negative and threatening e-mail asking me to try and figure out who it was from over 1 year later. I was able to research and respond later that evening, then Scott decided to use this forum to launch his attack. He was not aware that I knew exactly who he was and that I have saved his e-mails on the items in question. I am for exposing your address and payment information and if Steve could remove that I think that would be the correct thing to do. I will like to explain my opinion on this authentication and why P.A.A.S. did not issue a Letter of Authenticity. I will offer my explanation with examples and my concerns as a professional autograph authenticator.