Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 12, 2013 at 8:33am

PSA still accepts Pacino sigs for authentication. Not sure where that rumor started but heard it before. A collector I know sent in some Pacino sigs in Jan or Feb that he got during the last Glengarry Glenn Ross run on Broadway. I know they authenticated 3 of them because he offered one to me and was giving me my pick of the three. He just wanted more then I'd pay for a Pacino.

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Permalink Reply by JXE on August 15, 2013 at 7:53pm

While I agree that it's a slippery slope to authenticate scribbles, I also think it's dangerous to state your opinion without evidence as a "well known fact". Especially when in the same paragraph you post another idea as fact--that PSA doesn't authenticate Pacino anymore--which is verifiably false. 

I think it's easy to make assumptions of how PSA may or may not operate. But assuming peoples' hunches are correct and they do give credit to the seller (hell, they ask for seller names on quick opinions)... all of us are doing that same thing all the time on this forum. It's hard to overlook the dealer, especially when they are known to be rock solid. I'm not condoning the act (if that's even what's happening), but I do see how provenance could help make a decision when you're 90% sure and you need that extra 10%. In a similar thread someone was posting ugly PSA Meg Ryan signatures. Interestingly, those autographs were also listed y sellers with excellent reputations here and everywhere else in the collecting world. Just food for thought. 

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Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on August 15, 2013 at 8:02pm

JXE I never said PSA didn't authenticate Pacino anymore.  You might need to re-read, someone else said that and I said that they still DO authenticate Pacino.  

At any rate.  If you want to look at facts, we can do that.  Let us take a company by the name of Toppix Autographs.  They are a fairly solid dealer but many of the autographs on their site are highly questionable, but i happen to know for a FACT that JSA will cert anything that comes from them.  

Now, am I sure that they autographs are fake.....of course not.  However, my whole thing is that forging a Pacino signature isn't hard.  I also know from the many handwriting analysis classes I have taken that some things cannot be visually authenticated.  Another words, if everyone on this entire forum drew a straight line and posted a picture of it.  Could PSA tell which one of us drew which line?  They can have all the exemplars they want, but some things simply can't be authenticated.  

Also, how do we know a rock solid dealer doesn't fall hard up for money because he hasn't had any luck in the field and just decides to forge up a few Pacinos.  There are to many intangibles.  I think PSA does a decent job.  They are by far my favorite 3 party authenticator and I have used them and I will again.  I just hate to see them authenticate lines.    

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Permalink Reply by JXE on August 15, 2013 at 8:31pm

I wasn't replying to you; I was replying to jerome. But I must say, you said you were going to offer up facts and then you gave a complete opinion-based hypothetical. How do you know for a fact that JSA will pass anything Toppix submits? I've never even seen Toppix sell a single item that was certed by JSA.

This is really a story for a different thread, but I can't tell if you're saying Toppix is reuptable or they aren't. You call them fairly solid, but then say sell items that are highly questionable. All I could offer up is that I own abut 10 items that came from them, and all have passed my standards for authentication. Also, skylinesignatures has told me that he partners with them ocassionally and everyone here loves skyline.

As for authenticating scribbles, I agree that it's a slippery slope. The problem is that Pacino's standard signature looks like that and PSA is scrutinized for having the opinion that it's real. Maybe  they should be more liberal with the "unable to render opinion" option foreveryone's sake...

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Permalink Reply by Jerome Turner on August 16, 2013 at 4:25am

The "evidence" is what I have seen and heard from those that PSA does this for.  Of course this isn't something that PSA (or those they do this for) is going to advertise or display so there isn't going to be any documented hard copy evidence for you to see if thats what you're looking for. But I can assure you it happens.  You can choose to believe it or not.  As far as PSA not authenticating Pacino, try sending in a typical circle dot or check mark to them and see what happens.  Unless you are "in" with them and they trust you, the best you will probably get is an inconclusive.  Its problematic for them to authenticate these and they know it.  Anyone and their mother can fake a typical Pacino scribble and make it look 100% real. 

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on August 18, 2013 at 7:55am

I assume PSA passes Pacinos that are from reputable dealers..I've sent several in, all received "no opinion" and they were obtained from legitimate dealers.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on August 18, 2013 at 10:29am

A TRUE authenticator should not care ( much less inquire ) who the "dealer" is.  The autograph should be the only information available and needed!

However, we all know it happens.  In fact, sometimes, it happens in reverse. certain dealer's items have been rejected, solely based off of "who" the dealer was.

Another great example of how 3rd party authentication and "coas" are destroying this hobby.

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