Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Erich Jerozal on November 6, 2013 at 2:06pm

This is one of my PSA/DNA signed baseballs with a  similar cert.  This is Junichi Tazawa I purchased this a couple years ago I believe. 

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Permalink Reply by Erich Jerozal on November 6, 2013 at 2:08pm

Here is the sig to go with that cert.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on November 6, 2013 at 3:15pm

Someone questioned one of their LOAs a few weeks ago on a Mariano Rivera autograph that looked suspect and they confirmed that it was a legitimate LOA.

I'm guessing they may have multiple suppliers of the printed LOAs and don't necessarily use them first in first out. The best thing to do is send them an email with scans of the items and LOAs and see what they say.

I assume you think someone is looking up items that have been authenticated and reproducing those LOAs and stickers and putting them on bogus items. I think it is remote but certainly possible.

I don't know Lebron's or Aaron's signatures well but they are obviously a target for forgeries as there is not much to them.

The Ebay seller is legitimate but a lot of his items are consigned so although he is an honest seller who only sells authenticated items, he could get bad items if anyone has gotten smart enough to pull this scam off as I doubt if he would question any authenticated item consigned to him.

PSA needs to be alerted about this situation. 

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Permalink Reply by Don Gregerson on November 6, 2013 at 5:05pm

Randy, I read that post and reply on the LOA.  I would highly doubt that they have multiple suppliers for the certs or LOA paper.  Security, and cost, would be an issue with that.  But that aside, this is about a basic cert.  The basic certs are much easier to reproduce because there is no photo that the forger has to contend with in PSA's system.  With an LOA, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to reproduce an item associated with it because when someone tries to verify it, there's a high quality photograph of the item right there on PSA's website.  You can compare the item and due to nuances and slight differences in every signature, would be able to tell that it was different.

In this case, it looks pretty clear to me that the PSA basic cert is different than the standard one issued.  All a "cert forger" has to do is reproduce the basic cert and sticker, and forge the item in question (those Aaron Rodgers are HORRIBLE IMO), then voila! A brand new PSA item.  

I certainly don't think Probstein123 is doing this.  Probstein123 is just an auction house and takes your items and resells them.  Obviously the person behind this operation figured that out so that they do not have to be the one who is responsible and they hid behind Probstein123's anonymity.  

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Permalink Reply by Randy on November 6, 2013 at 5:36pm

It is certainly possible and a black eye for the autograph authentication business if it is indeed a fact. I still think the key is to get PSA/DNA's take on the subject. 

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Permalink Reply by Don Gregerson on November 6, 2013 at 8:22pm

I would love to hear it, but, at the same time, would question whether they would admit publicly that there is a problem with their cert being duplicated.

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Permalink Reply by Rock G III on November 7, 2013 at 5:41am

When I google probstein123 shill a bunch of results pop. But nothing for fake, 

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Permalink Reply by Don Gregerson on November 7, 2013 at 11:50am

Again that's because Probstein123 isn't the true seller.  Probstein123 is an auction house just like R&R or Heritage.  They accept consignments from people, and this is a consignment from someone.  Someone who undoubtedly wants to remain anonymous.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on November 7, 2013 at 2:52pm

these items appear to have been pulled by the seller

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Permalink Reply by Dan Gregory on November 7, 2013 at 4:51pm

I've no doubt Probstein is simply selling what they get sent. However, it is suspicious these items have been pulled although I like a seller who has doubts and pulls items rather than let someone pay and find out they are not genuine later on

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Permalink Reply by Don Gregerson on November 7, 2013 at 4:56pm

I think this is a little bigger problem than just these two items.  I have no doubt that whoever made these certs made them in quantity, and didn't just do it for two items.  They are professional quality fakes (the cert, not the autograph)!!  I would love it if someone with more industry experience and knowledge than me could shed light on the situation.  This could possibly be a huge operation, ripe for getting taken down.

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Permalink Reply by JXE on November 7, 2013 at 6:20pm

I'm surprised that more people on here don't instantly recognize that those certs and stickers are fake. Besides the weird number placement, the certs themselves have an overall look to them that is bolder and different from real certs.

But the stickers are the biggest giveaway. The stickers on those items are clearly a solid oval shaped sticker with a satin-ish finish. Real stickers almost always have a certain residue around them because they aren't a solid sticker, but rather more of a glob that comes off in pieces at the edges. Furthermore, on a real COA, the PSA/DNA logo is printed separately from the rectangular box around it, and sometimes the placement is way off because of the separate printing. On these fake stickers, the placement is all perfect, and the stickers clearly look perfectly smooth on the edges, as if they'd come right off in one piece if you peeled it back.

These certs and stickers are definitely fake. They just matched them up to a number that works in the database.

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