Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 16, 2018 at 3:18pm

How and when did you pay? You do not have to verify what the seller knew - how could that be done and what would they say anyway. I may be wrong but demonstrable known forgeries are not "circumstantial" evidence. Some of thses may be on paper created after the death of the signer - that is fairly hard evidence I should think.

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 16, 2018 at 3:48pm

Eric,

It sickens me knowing what I know now. I paid cash in person. I have the guys home address, which is suspicious in itself. Why would someone knowingly sell forgeries if the buyer knows where they reside? So many questions, so few logical answers. While this was a sickening experience, my faith in humanity as a whole is not too badly tarnished. I know there are honest people out there, just not as many as there should be. Iv'e researched the photos and artwork to some extent, and they all fall within the parameters of Mantles timeline. There were two LOA's supposedly from the actual person who had them signed at card shows, which after research, aren't proving anything but fiction. 

Do I hand these over to the FBI, and file a lawsuit against the person in question? It is unfortunately a fairly large sum of money, and I would really like to get it back. But, what are the odds? Have you ever had to deal with forgeries? Just curious as to what the process might I be looking forward to.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 16, 2018 at 3:56pm

Hello Ezra,

I am heading out of the door, but I'd look at the backs of the photos for information on the paper types - as has been demonstrated with some of thses they are manufactured after certain celebs died. Others may have additional suggestions. Having paid in cash - receipt even? I truly hope this can work out for you. :)

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 16, 2018 at 3:33pm

Sorry to hear that. You don't have to prove they knew they were not real. Did you buy them in the last six months using regular PayPal (not friends and family) or a credit card? You may have buyer protection.

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 16, 2018 at 4:01pm

Steve,

I purchased them in person with cash about ten months ago. I purchased them in a package deal with other sports items. Taking into account the other items, I figure I lost about $1300. He was one hell of a salesman. And I should have known better. I wasn't in the market for signed items, but knowing how much my uncle would have liked the signed Mickey Mantle Photos, I purchased them along with the other items I was interested in. I still have the guys phone number and address, although, he is not answering. Go figure. That alone should tell me he knew they weren't real. I do know a few agents at the FBI, not in the fraud division, but I'm sure they could refer me to the right direction. Question comes down to how much more energy and frustration am I willing to put forth to see this to fruition. It is less frustrating to try and forget it, than it is to admit I was taken for a fool. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 16, 2018 at 5:00pm

I really don't know what recourse is possible at this point, but I urge you to investigate it. Thses "deals", and "dealers", rely on it being "forgotten". There is a lot under that rug. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 16, 2018 at 5:28pm

It's sad and infuriating you were defrauded, and way too common.

Forget the FBI but you can file a police report, which I think would be a great idea. Selling forgeries is theft by fraud.

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 16, 2018 at 7:41pm

Maybe the guy who sold them lost his cell phone so that is why he isn’t answering. You have is address. Go knock on his door and let him know they were forgeries and ask him for your money back.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on August 16, 2018 at 3:36pm

we have all been scammed at one time or another

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Permalink Reply by Ezra Spurlock on August 16, 2018 at 4:23pm

Terrier,

Well, this is one party I wouldn't want to be invited to. It's unfortunate that trusting people get scammed, but a necessary evil in the fight against it, I suppose. If it wasn't for scammers, we wouldn't be vigil against a possibility. I Gotta look for a silver lining somewhere. Not an easy pill to swallow, As i'm sure those that have been taken, already know.

Eric,

There aren't any identifying marks as far as I can tell on the backs of the photos and cardstock. Although, they do look like they had a sticker at some point. What the sticker may have been I don't know. maybe something along the lines as identifying the items as a "Copy"? Like how some people remove identifying marks on items made in china, and place "Made In USA" stickers over them. If one is going to be fraudulent, why stop at a mere sticker? I am certainly learning quite a bit about the forgery market reading these threads, hopefully I  will remember this information if the situation ever presents itself again. More than likely, I will shy away from further sports memorabilia. Even with an authentic JSA or PSA, one still has to verify the data contained in the authentication. Something to be said about peace of mind and reputable merchants. But, with their volume, they probably experience some loss as well. As long as they stand behind their product, that is about all one can do. 

It's kind of embarrassing to admit being fooled, when I used to work in Loss Prevention. But, then again living in fear of being a victim, is no way to live. Where is the happy medium?   

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on August 16, 2018 at 4:26pm

Ezra, you can do the Dry Erase Marker test on the ink.

I describe how to do it in my below thread.

https://live.autographmagazine.com/profiles/blogs/guaranteed-forens...

Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on August 18, 2018 at 6:24am

yes it does and most of the sellers DO know what their selling and that's what makes it so maddening. Consider it a good lesson. It's an old adage but perhaps you haven't heard of it...If it's too good to be true, it usually is. I suggest that you study Dimaggio and Mantle before you buy another thing or maybe get out of autographs all together. Those are the 2 choices. Good luck!

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