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Frustration over a Jim Henson autograph that I know is authentic (but rejected by Beckett, possibly due to his varied styles of signing his name)

Earlier this week, I posted on the Autographs subreddit about a Jim Henson autograph that I'd recently purchased from an online estate sale. It was previously owned by a man with a collection of autographs nearing 2,000 or more. (see post in question, https://bit.ly/33pl3GR )

Unfortunately, this failed authentication with AutographCOA.com, failed to impress a fellow Redditor, and received "unlikely to pass full authentication" from Beckett.com (in that order).

However, I do have a second Jim Henson autograph that I purchased via an eBay auction some years ago. It came directly from a collector in New York state. For my piece of mind and to satisfy my (diagnosed) anxiety, I submitted it for the $10 pre-certification at Beckett.com. To my dismay, it also came back as "unlikely to pass full authentication."

So I went immediately back to eBay and got back in touch with the seller. He had earned my trust when I purchased the autograph and I wanted to be reassured. Last night, after a few emails exchanged back and forth with this person who had acquired the autograph, I wrote down the following:

The following things are true, as told to me by the seller. I have no reason to believe he's lying. He has proven himself to be a very trustworthy individual.

He attended a meet-and-greet event, promoting Muppet Babies merchandise, at a department store (possibly Macy's) in New York City. He acquired Jim Henson's signature on a Bert toy puppet, an Ernie toy puppet and on a poster for Muppets Take Manhattan. Later, he purchased a glass case to display the two toys in his home. The Muppets Take Manhattan poster later fell off a wall, damaging it. He later had the autographed portion of the poster professionally framed for redisplay in his home. Twenty or so years later, he sold the framed portion of a poster via an eBay auction (to me). As of October 2021, he had the two signed toys authenticated (in person) with AutographCOA.com.

During the course of our emails, he stated that if I wanted to return the autograph because of my lack of confidence (and Beckett being unable to authenticate it). I said that I did not want to return it. It can also be noted that the seller is a graphic designer who has collected other items that I would love to collect myself, including original comic art and other autographs.

In order to believe the autograph of JH is in any way fraudulent, I have to believe all of the following:

The seller is lying about having attended the event at the department store where Jim Henson appeared. He forged Jim Henson's signatures on two toys and a Muppets Take Manhattan poster. He also purchased a glass case to display the two toys with the fraudulent autographs. In order to make the autograph worth less, he damaged the poster and had the autographed portion professionally framed for display in his home. Then he decided to sell it 20+ years later. He later managed to get the two fraudulent autographs on the toys professionally authenticated at great cost to him, despite being fake.

I think you would agree that this strains credulity. Moreover, scammers do not generally return emails years after the transaction was completed or offer to buy back the item in question.

I would love to be able to authenticate the JH autograph, not only for my own piece of mind but because I've started on this journey and now I want to finish it. Also, it'd be nice to have it authenticated if my surviving relatives (I have no wife or kids but I have nieces and a nephew) want to sell it after I'm dead. It would be nice if it could go to another Muppets fan who could then have confidence in its authenticity. A copy of this post, along with my message history with the seller and his photos of the authentication letters for the two toys, are going to go into a file folder once I am done with this episode.

What makes this all the more frustrating is this: Jim Henson had two different ways of signing his name. Sometimes he wrote the J with a loop, (e.g., https://imgur.com/a/Lt3vB5F ) and sometimes he signed his J with a diagonal line instead of the loop ( https://imgur.com/a/mfd2AFM ). I obviously don't know why he would sign his name one way on one occasion and a different way for something else. On the day the original owner of my Jim Henson autograph got the two toys and the poster signed, Jim Henson signed his name two different ways ( https://imgur.com/a/fYM4DE9 ). Here's one that Beckett authenticated that does have the loop on the J: https://ebay.to/30f6KDh ... The other three Beckett-authenticated JH autographs currently on ebay have the diagonal line J.

I appreciate any and all advice or feedback that this forum can provide. Please be kind. I've had a terribly stressful week. (I hate the holidays).

Thank you for reading.

Tags: henson, jim, muppets

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 11, 2021 at 2:46pm

How much was this chop-cut?

This 8x10 just closed recently at RR for only $400:

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 11, 2021 at 2:52pm

I mean, look at this. Only $300 with the juice this year at RR. Content includes his observations of our hobby...

Permalink Reply by Colin Ryono on December 11, 2021 at 6:56pm

What's RR please? I see this same exact autograph on ebay right now for $1199.

Permalink Reply by Colin Ryono on December 11, 2021 at 7:24pm

Never mind. I think someone bought this on RR-auctions then is trying to resell it on ebay. (at least that's what I hope the circumstances are).

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 12, 2021 at 5:41am

"...I think someone bought this on RR-auctions then is trying to resell it on ebay..."

That's normal.

Permalink Reply by Nick Dimeo on December 11, 2021 at 6:07pm

A gorgeous Henson just was sold by Markus Brandes which had the utmost provenance attached. It looks nothing like what was posted by Colin. Colin, unfortunately as your info states you are a Beginner Collector and you just have to chalk it up to loss this time, happens to all of us. If anything, this will teach you to not take too much stock in the word of someone.

Permalink Reply by JK on December 11, 2021 at 6:15pm

Do you have a photo? I looked on his site and I didn't see it.

Permalink Reply by Nick Dimeo on December 11, 2021 at 6:20pm

Unfortunately there is no way to search completed sales on his site but there is a photo of it in the banner for his big 15% off Christmas sale. It was sold less than a week ago. I know Markus frequents this site a lot, he may be able to post it.

Permalink Reply by Colin Ryono on December 11, 2021 at 6:51pm

I believe my autograph to be legitimate. I don't know anything about analyzing letter shapes or the details that go into authentication but it's clear that there was wide variances in JH's signature.

Permalink Reply by JK on December 11, 2021 at 7:36pm

No offense at all intended, but this approach to collecting is a recipe for disaster. I fear that the endeavor will unfortunately prove to be expensive and disappointing.

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 11, 2021 at 8:12pm

Can I ask a question. It seems you have owned this for awhile. What made you decide to have this authenticated? To sell possibly? ACOA, I believe is currently the best in the business. Beckett is terrible on quick opinions, in my experience.

Your example is atypical, IMO. That doesn't make it a fake necessarily but it does make it difficult for a TPA service to verify it. I've seen many street acquired autographs that are genuine but would never get authenticated. That happens all the time.

If you believe it's genuine and you intend to keep it; that's great. Enjoy! Convincing someone else it's authentic is a whole different story.

Permalink Reply by Colin Ryono on December 11, 2021 at 9:36pm

Why I tried to get it authenticated: I bought a different JH autograph from an estate sale which failed the online authentication with ACOA and Beckett. This made me extremely anxious/paranoid so I wanted a resolution in terms of my other autograph (the one displayed in this post). But Beckett (the less expensive option) gave it the Unlikely grade. Which made things worse. I don't intend to sell it. I value it tremendously. Which makes all the doubting to be tremendously harmful to my mental health.

Other people have the exact opposite opinion as you: that Beckett is the best/only reputable option and ACOA is the worst. It makes everything very confusing.

I have my reasons for believing it to be legit. But very few people think I'm being reasonable. Which hurts me as well because they're essentially telling me I'm an idiot.