Authenticity is Everything
President Richard Nixon - "Typed Letter Signed" or "Cut"? - Resignation Letter
When is a TLS not a TLS?
When it's a "cut" that has been digitally made into a TLS, of course.
Once again, some history document collectors are applauding this effort as this piece is advertised for sale. Meanwhile, PSA/DNA does not show what they actually authenticated on their site's verification lookup.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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"...PSA's use of the word "cut" is an acknowledgement that the item is not what is might appear to be (photo, document, etc.). "
What if you did not know that? "Might?" - these things are hard enough to navigate for a newer collector. I'm still thinking about "Blank Page" vs "Cut"...
People are buying or at least selling obvious secretarials because they are in a slab. This terminology above seems a fine nuance in this context. Forgers aren't the only ones who make mistakes.
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"Our Label Means Authentic" - PSA
Well, sort of...I love that "authentic" is in italics...several meanings there IIRC.
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Permalink Reply by JK on
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"I'm still thinking about "Blank Page" vs "Cut"..."
GREAT IDEA. But guess what, saying it here won't make any difference. Send a letter to PSA and make your case. Tell them that everyone here agrees with you and that none of us will buy any of these fabrications until PSA labels them better.
And the comparison to slabbed secretarials is not really relevant. Those are outright no good. The signatures on these fabrications are good.
And BTW, when does a "blank page" become a "cut"? Surely all cuts are not blank pages. Why not note "added text" or "added photo"?.
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I have given up writing them. It took a lot of work to change the Gleason Facts page and they honestly do not seem to care as the last few topics in this area have shown. We have seen them passing Autopens, facsimiles, dead ink, secretarials and forgeries. Time is better spent with the collectors as far as I am concerned.
No one will EVER care about your autographs as much as you do.
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If that slab/cert combo keeps going south there will be so many things popping things out of those tombs it will make Night of the Living Dead look like child's play.
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Permalink Reply by eddy on
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JK -
With respect, here's what I'm "suggesting" by pointing this out and about PSA not showing the image of what they actually authenticated on their database lookup site.
This item is currently for sale on Historical Autographs on Facebook.
A question was asked of the seller of the OP item by a member of the group:
"Did RMN sign this paper with these words on it, or is this a later digital creation of some kind? It says "cut" on the label, so I would imagine the latter?"
The seller responded:
"I honestly don’t know if it was typed before or after he signed. It’s a really cool piece in mint condition!"
Fair enough on the seller's part, I guess. Can't verify it by an image lookup on the PSA database. It's only $950 that's being asked for it so not much lost if you are operating under the assumption that it might have been signed "as is" by President Nixon. Even the seller doesn't claim to know when asked.
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This item was clearly a signed page (from a book) that had text added later. Any seller who can't see that has no business selling autographs.
Back to PSA... You still haven't specified what you think PSA might be doing. Are you suggesting that what they "actually authenticated" was the autograph before the text was added? If that were the case, how is it in their slab?
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They're selling it whether we think they have any business doing so or not.
I have no idea what PSA authenticated and how it looked. The seller of the Nixon item doesn't. Nor does any potential buyer.
I'm just pointing out that it seems to be a PSA policy with these digitally manipulated "cuts" not too image the item that they are certifying. This deviates from their standard procedure of including an image on the site.
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I have no idea what PSA authenticated.
There it is again. 😒 Do you have any reason to imply that PSA might not have authenticated exactly what you see in the slab? I'd really like to understand the thought process there. Maybe I'm missing something.
The seller of the item doesn't.
The seller knows what was authenticated. They just claim to not know whether the text was there when RN signed it (it wasn't) or if the text was added to a signed blank page.
Any potential buyer has no chance of knowing either.
I know. You know. We all know. A new or inexperienced collector might not know, but atleast they'd be buying an authentic signature. There are so many ways a new/inexperienced collector can get taken. We can't save everyone. Some people are destined to pay tuition.
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" A new or inexperienced collector might not know, but at least they'd be buying an authentic signature"
I feel so relieved. Is that the minimum? Is that the only measure? It is authentic? I've said it before and I'll say it again - "OK, it is authentic, but is it of quality?" These concoctions are not. What about the collector who paid (or will pay) for what he thought was a signed Trump magazine, or a Lugosi postcard, or any of the other stuff, like that William Brady fake logo? I am wondering what is next...it's a slippery slope.
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A new or inexperienced collector might not know, but atleast they'd be buying an authentic signature.
That's true but there is a massive difference in the "value" of a Nixon signature-cut and an "important" historical document which is how the piece is being marketed.
PSA might say that their job is to authenticate autographs, not documents, and that they have accurately labelled it as "Cut". Fine. Why, then, decline to publish an image of the item? At the very least that is just a bit disingenuous. It is surely not just an error of omission. More likely a calculated decision on someone's part.
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