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Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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Item 300725059532 is no longer available - for two reasons; 1 using a banned coa and 2. for failing to comply with signed autograph posting policies. Since, this seller was a power seller, I'm not so inclined to give the benefit of the doubt especially where the COA is partially hidden and in the description he states "contact me - for more information on the coa". In this case, that could be an argument to suspend the seller altogether.
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Permalink Reply by James Wymer on
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Here is another silly Mantle with a nearly $2000 price tag.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Autographed-Baseball-Micky-Mantle-COA-/2609...
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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
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Damn, James, this is one horrific forgery!!!! is this Ebay seller serious about selling this crap!!!! And for $1956.99 or Best Offer. Seriously!!!!
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That seller has 100% feedback I asked them if they were serious about selling such a horrible forgery and pointed out that so far they have a good reputation. We will see.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Shields on
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Man, I feel for you guys. These junk forged items are everywhere. This seems like it's just a huge uphill battle to get all this junk off the market.
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Somedays, I get 'em right other times I fall on the sword. I believe this one I might be getting right. Of course it might have to do with the following;
"COMES WITH TWO SEPARATE CERTIFCATES OF AUTHENTICITY. ONE FROM "AUTHENTIC AUTOGRAPHS UNLIMITED" WHO IS A HIGHLY RECOGINZED AUTHENTICATOR AS WELL AS ANOTHER CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY FROM "ANTIQUITIES OF LAS VEGAS".
and the latter one having had it's set of authenticity difficulties. Of course, neither coas are depicted thus in violation of ebay policy to start with. As well I don't get the warm fuzzies when i think of AAU if this is the Drew Max associated one.
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Item 290624708232 is no longer available. I can put the sword away for another time.
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I've seen this Mickey Mantle forgery on a Donruss card numerous times on Ebay over the years. Again, another horrific Mickey Mantle forgery.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360474979441
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Another set of Mickey Mantle/Joe DiMaggio forgeries. Same crap from Florida.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Joe-DiMaggio-Autograph-5-x-7-...
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Typical set of Mantle/DiMaggio/Williams set of forgeries. Check out the COA from Autographed Legends, LLC. Same as the Burczyk, CSC Collectibles, YMC Sports, etc., COAs.
And as we all know, there is no such thing as a Verifiable Court Recognized Exemplar File. There is no such thing!!! The problem, of course, is that people fall for that crap!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160850714446
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and 160850714446 is according to this seller FROM ESTATE OF LOCAL SPORTS COLLECTOR AND YANKEES FAN
accordingly this collector had this in their collection and had no idea and since it's certified it must be authentic. Like swimming against the tide.
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In case this was sold, as the seller claims in this thread o/s of ebay (which btw IS a violation of EBAY policy & thus jepordizes this seller's account) am linking the thread where the discussion ensuedl http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/would-love-to-get-so...
& if it indeed was sold perhaps the duped buyer may find this place based on seller bigdaddysalmon61 claims.
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