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Authenticity is Everything
Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites
While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.
Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:
As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.
In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.
In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.
Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.
Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.
Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Matt Greleski on
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This was an estate auction where I live in northwestern PA. I had my doubts, so I was prepared to spend no more than 50 bucks just as a gamble. It’s amazing the crap that people were buying there. One guy spent 1500+ and got that Mantle, DiMaggio, and a Berra, Jeter, and Alomar.
I’m amazed at the stupidity of people. My amateur eye thought they were fakes. I studied them for over an hour, comparing them to pictures of PSA signatures. The people that bought them never appeared to be at the table of balls. Maybe they studied them before I saw them, but it is crazy.
The big 3 balls had B & J Collectibles COAs. I had done some research and this is not a company that I could confirm to be legit. The Ryan had a Score Board COA. This autograph was the one I thought could POSSIBLY be real.
Another thing, I saw a guy buy a Reggie Jackson ball for 250. To me, even if it’s real, which it probably wasn’t, I have found real ones to be cheaper. Another Example: A Strawberry ball went for 90. I wouldn’t give 20 for that.
Finally the height of ignorance: There was a Cal Ripken ball signed with a COA stating that the signature was a FACSIMILE. I saw the ball on ebay for 6 bucks, and I was prepared to pay 10. A guy (the same guy that bought Mantle etc) spent 90 on it!!! Is this stuff common practice? I want to sell stuff to these guys. I wanted to ask them what they were doing with this stuff, and I also wanted to be a smartass and ask them why they were spending hundreds on fakes.
Anyway, thank you everyone for your help. I continue to welcome comments.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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I'm with you, I'd be interested in some other opinions on this ball. I think it's just an atypical M in Mantle on a not great autograph overall, but I wouldn't want this ball in my collection.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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That Mantle is fine. The second M is a bit clunky, but maybe it was near the end of the line and he was getting tired. Everything UDA was signed in the presence of them to the best of my knowledge. I have never heard of a bad UDA item.
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Thanks, Zippy.
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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
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Absolutely, Mr. Zipper. Very authentic Mantle. I've seen numerous unique authentic Mantle sigs with the UDA COA.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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I agree with Zipper, the Mantle with the UDA cert is good.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on
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I do not really feel comfortable getting involved unless I am asked to participate. I have been contacted by a customer for an examination of the Nolan Ryan signed baseball that Matt Greleski has presented in this discussion. I believe the Nolan Ryan to be authentic, I do not see a problem with it at all based solely upon the scan presented. I would also like to say that the Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams baseballs also presented by Matt Greleski are NOT authentic.As for the UDA Mickey Mantle signed baseball shown above in the discussion, this signature is 100% authentic.I will be reporting shortly on some authentication issues that have been presented to me this past week. P.A.A.S. has been submitted by a customer over 300 signed photographs that are not authentic. I will be sharing with the members here at Autograph Magazine Live scans of many of the photos and signatures in question. I will be sharing this private information to try to stop these signed items from entering the market. I have been told and I do believe once returned the bulk of these signed photos will be authenticated by another autograph authentication company and they will be put up for sale.Thank you for your time and I will make myself available as much as possible.
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I was also wondering what you think about balls being shrinkwrapped in cellophane. To me, that is very odd, but is that common practice? Is it legit?
How about C & J collectibles or Scoreboard? Are they legit? Thanks!
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the baseline on the ryan is not consistent with his style. this ball has a straight baseline. Do an ebay search on Ryan, check out every ball and look at where his last name is relative to his first name. For that reason, I would not pass this ball. but then, its just my opinion.
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Good to hear everyone's thoughts since my UDA Mantle has a close COA # to the one posted. thanks for all the knowledge guys.
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Check out this Ebay listing from Ebay seller acsjazz001.
This seller has a lot of three (3) Mickey Mantle forgeries in one listing. Ebay seller acsjazz001 is selling a Mickey Mantle forgery on a cap; a Mickey Mantle forgery on a baseball and a Mickey Mantle forgery on a photo. Three (3) Mickey Mantle forgeries in one listing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Autographed-LOT-w-COA-/271071...
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