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Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favorites

It is unquestionable that Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, and Joe DiMaggio have been American sports icons since the mid-20th century. It comes as no surprise that these three have been favorites of autograph collectors since the advent of autograph and card shows in the 1980’s. Unfortunately it is equally unsurprising, as attested to in the FBI’s famous 1990s Operation Bullpen, that they are also the three most forged sports autographs. Although most experts believe the forgery problem in sports memorabilia has lessoned tremendously since Operation Bullpen (estimated at that time to be “between $500,000,000 and $900,000,000” by the FBI), sadly large numbers of forged material still exist.

While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.

Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.
Click to enlarge:

As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.

In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.

In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.

In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.

Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.

Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.

Tags: authenticate, baseball, dimaggio, fame, forgeries, forgers, genuine, hall, hof, joe, More…mantle, mickey, of, ted, williams

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on April 21, 2013 at 2:16pm

your "seminar should start by looking at real exemplar which you can find all day long on this and other sites.

Sorry to be such a dick, but this is the kind of crap that chafes my fat fanny

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Permalink Reply by Geoffrey Ciereck on April 21, 2013 at 3:12pm

You're not sorry for being a dick or you wouldn't have acted like one, so don't apologize. I was just saying it's more helpful to have someone go through the signatures to really learn the tells than acting like a know-it-all saying "look at websites, it's so obvious". That's why I appreciated Ryan's post. You don't have to have an attitude; I was just asking for help in navigating this area. There are apparently a lot of people who have made the mistake of buying fake crap or these forums wouldn't exist. I and many out here appreciate real assistance so we don't fall for forgeries. That's why I'm on this site in the first place. I think it's great that you guys out forgers and help people tell the differences. But don't belittle us for trying to learn too.

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on April 21, 2013 at 6:05pm

Welcome and good luck in your pusuit of authentic baseball hall of famer autographs. They signed a ton of stuff so with careful scrutiny and even posting pics before you buy and asking nicely you will get great advice here. Starting at the beginning of this conversation is a good way to start,there is also a good you-tube blog on mantle sigs. Stay away from craigslist, flea market types, and over half the stuff on ebay is phoney as well!

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on April 21, 2013 at 6:25pm

Geoffrey one of the ways novice collectors get lured in is a deal that is "too good to pass up". like the old adage states, if its too good to be true, then it probably is. hundreds of collectors, if not thousands, are looking at the same items you are. Once in a while you can still get a good deal on ebay, but for the most part, if the bids are very low on an item, or it has a low "buy it now", avoid it.

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Permalink Reply by Null on April 21, 2013 at 6:37pm

Geoff feel free to post potential purchases and myself and others will try and help you get an authentic piece. Understandably, we don't want to tell you what makes it fake, because it could potentially "tip off" these forgers. You have to develop an "eye" for a specific signature, study authentic exemplars ( Fudd has an awesome thread with nothing but 100% authentic sigs). Also study the forgeries we post. Build up an exemplar library, and with time you will be able to tell. About a year ago I was just as clueless as you are, this "eye" isn't obtained overnight. I've studied Mantle every day for 7+ months and I'm still learning every day. There are some on here who have done it 15+ years if not longer. It just takes time. Until you get the feel for Mantle, run it by us here, or stick to one authenticated by PSA/DNA or JSA.

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on April 21, 2013 at 7:15pm

Geoffrey, you didn't do anything wrong by asking. Many collectors are just plain tired of seeing this junk circulate and have people either a) defend it b) resell it ; thus, flooding the markets with fakes that undervalue genuine pieces.

I was in your position not too long ago. What I find helpful is taking an obvious forgery like the one you've shown, and try to print it out or keep it on your computer screen adjacent to a 100% authentic example. You can then "teach yourself" the characteristics. It seems ridiculous at first, but it could actually become fun which would fuel your interest in the hobby. As others said, post stuff here before you buy. There are a lot of wonderful collectors that offer great advice.

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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on April 22, 2013 at 8:44am

you're right, I'm not sorry. I'm only sorry people are so fen stupid. This thread alone is 178 pages. Had you read just 25 pages of it, you'd know why the crap you're looking at is not worth the paper it's printed on. Just keep yourself stupid, I could give a rats ass. I am so sick and tired of the whole autograph industry and most of my disdain is from blithering idiots like yourself.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 22, 2013 at 9:24am

Fudd,

I understand your frustration, but please keep in mind that a lot of collectors come here to learn how to collect safely. The forgery industry is filled with thieves who are superb confidence men. It generally takes a while to figure things out.

Plus I haven't written a guide to using this site, so people often don't know where they can find what they're looking for.

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on April 22, 2013 at 11:10am

I re read his original post, and it doesnt appear he is part of the problem at all, just a new collector. And thus we should welcome him as such. I dont agree at all with treating a future collector like crap just b/c they dont know the ropes of a certain autograph. The anger and arrogance showed towards this member are completely out of line in my opinion. And will ultimately probably chase off a future collector. I completely understand the anger expressed by some towards certain people and collectors, but this guy didnt do anything wrong at all. No one in this hobby needs to look down their nose at anyone else b/c of their experience level......period.

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Permalink Reply by Fuddjcal on April 23, 2013 at 9:50am

when I said "I'm sorry to be such a dick", I meant it. It was tongue in cheek self defacing comment.

When Geoffrey Giraffe answers " You're not sorry for being a dick or you wouldn't have acted like one, so don't apologize." I simply let the gentleman know the facts and retracted my apology and let him know what I think of junk collectors. There is so much great information on this site alone where Mantle signatures and formations are discussed ad nausium, that all you have to do is want to find it. If this was 5 years ago, when NOTHING was available, it's one thing. People continue to come out of the wood work and there are more forgeries out there than ever. Then he says "he feels that TPA's guess half the time". It's just idiotic statements like this that continue to get my goat....and then it has a GFA cert "who invented authentication from a guy in the neighborhood...LOL. Like I said, I'm sorry and I apologize yet again for my insensitivity. As Chris Williams always says, "dopey buyers are half the problem".