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Is JSA now authenticating forgeries?

I am a new member although I do frequently read articles and forum posts from this site because they populate in Google search when I do research on various autographs.

Let me say first and foremost that this post is not to cause drama or ill feelings. I realize that there are a lot of people who are partial to TPA's and in all truthfulness, I myself prefer items that are certified by major 3rd party authentication companies.

I frequent eBay and make the majority of my purchases from ebay and like many of you, I usually add PSA or JSA to the search bar with whatever I am looking to buy. For instance, If I am looking to buy a Mickey Mantle signed baseball, I might query ( Mickey Mantle baseball PSA ).

While I am very capable of telling whether a Mantle is real or fake, I realize that should I ever want to resell the item that having a TPA on it will certainly help me. So, typically I buy items that are already certified. At the very least, it is a second opinion on what I already feel about the item. I don't buy simply based on the sticker, because I have seen a lot of items that I disagree with TPA's on.

My reason for this post is to call in to question James Spence ( JSA ) on some very questionable items I have been seeing as of late. Most of the items that I have seen have been Music and Entertainment. Has anyone else noticed that JSA is seemingly giving blanket authentication to items as of late. This concerns me as someone who has a large portion of my collection authenticated by JSA. While, I know that my JSA authenticated items are real, if they ruin their reputation, the resell value of these items will tank. This is very concerning. I wanted to get some opinions as to what is going on here? Is JSA going the route of Global? As a long time collector I remember when Global was actually a legitimate authentication company but in no time seemed to turn in to a blanket authentication company.

I am not trying to bash JSA but from what I've been seeing the last few months, I feel about 500% more confident in PSA when it comes to Music and Entertainment autographs. What made me decide to make this post was a conversation I had today with a guy I met at a show a while back. I would occasionally get him to have stuff authenticated if a major TPA was at a show he was going to. Well, he called me tonight out of the blue and said that James Spence and his son were going to be at his house and asked me if I had any items I needed authenticated.

This conversation made me feel that perhaps Spence is a bit to chummy with people he is authenticating for. I don't like that one bit. I don't want the authenticator drinking an ice cold beer with the person selling the autographs. It seems to be a serious conflict of interest and in all honesty, I have felt a serious decline in my level of trust in JSA.

Another interesting thing I want to touch base on is a company called GFA. There is one specific seller who is using about 5 different ebay ids to pump out countless amounts of forgeries from this supposed forensic expert.

This seller has used 5 names to sell well over 75,000 dollars in forgeries all certified by GFA. I have reported his items to eBay but because he is a power seller they seem to never pull the listings. I decided to do a PSA quick opinion on several of his offerings and all 4 of the quick opinions failed. I notified him that the items failed PSA Quick Opinion and this was his response

" It's not even worth dignifying this with a response but if the stuff I've been selling is fake, then I've been ripped off for the past year by my merchandiser. I gave up on those idiots at the "big authentication companies" when I sent them items that I had personally witnessed being signed and they came back as "likely not authentic". Why is it "likely"? Because it's their opinion..

As you can see, GFA is another company that gives blanket authentication and should absolutely be added to eBay's banned COA list.

Here is a few active auctions with GFA certs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Signed-8x10-Photo-Autographed...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dale-Earnhardt-Richard-Petty-Signed-8x10-Ph...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Signed-8x10-Photo-Autographed...

In closing, I sincerely hope that I haven't offended anyone with my first post. It just bothers me to see JSA authenticating so many questionable entertainment items. It would be horribly sad to see them sell out for the quick buck.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 20, 2014 at 9:05am

Pretty sure GFA authenticates exclusively for them.

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Permalink Reply by Bear on October 20, 2014 at 5:28am

I do not trust JSA or PSA/PSA because both have passed fakes for years. Look at all the fake Babe Ruth they passed. I ask this why does the court system not use them? Case closed

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 20, 2014 at 8:02am

The courts don't accept any COA or LOA at face value unless both sides agree (which they rarely do). They require the authenticator to appear and testify.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on October 20, 2014 at 5:41am

Please do not throw JSA in with Global or GFA. That is a ridiculous comparison. Most of what both of them authenticate are forgeries.

While JSA makes mistakes as any 3rd party authenticator will do, they are certainly more legitimate than Global or GFA.

As far as Jimmy Spence and his son going to a house to authenticate, they have always had a "House Call Program" in which they will come to anyone's house and authenticate autographs for an 8 hour day. They charge $2500 + expenses for this service and only supply 50 full LOAs for the day. I don't think they are going to have a beer with their buddies as you suggest.

As long as EVERY major auction house accepts JSA LOAs as legitimate, you don't have to worry about JSA going the way of Global or GFA. They knowingly authenticate forgeries. JSA does not do that.

Bashing legitimate 3rd party authenticators hurts the autograph hobby. While I admit they are not perfect, if a novice sticks with JSA or PSA/DNA they are much more likely to get an authentic autograph than flying on their own or buying bargain priced GFA or Global authenticated items.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 20, 2014 at 9:04am

I think we'd be more forgiving if these were just mistakes, as opposed to unforgivably shoddy practices and sometimes outright incompetence. I think any 3rd party authenticator should be called out for that. I don't think they should be "untouchable." Collectors are hurt when supposedly legitimate TPAs don't do their job.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on October 20, 2014 at 9:22am

Based on all auction houses accepting their LOAs, the autograph hobby in general does not consider them "supposedly legitimate."

Collectors can't get hurt because if they ever want to sell, they can submit the item to any major auction house and the item will sell at whatever market value is at that point in time as a legitimate autograph.

Mistakes, yes. Incompetence, no.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 20, 2014 at 9:25am

So the JSA sticker makes it "real," even if it is not? It's only about whether you can buy and sell? Please. Some people actually want authentic items, not just some supposed authority telling them it is.

Sorry, when you sticker strings of obviously bad autographs from the same source, that's either 1) laziness or 2) incompetence. Calling their constant half-ass authentications "mistakes" is way too generous.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on October 20, 2014 at 12:28pm

The JSA sticker to millions of autograph collectors is good enough because the opinion is trusted.

I realize the 5000 or so members of this forum think they are all autograph experts but no credentials are necessary here. You just sign up and start giving opinions.

There are certainly some excellent general autograph experts here and many that are experts on a given individual but to authenticate thousands of different sports/entertainment stars is a different scenario.

JSA and PSA/DNA use known authentic exemplars for comparison. I doubt if anyone here has a library of exemplars that match either of these companies.

Jimmy and Steve have done this for a living for many years and regardless of the opinions expressed on this forum, they continue to be widely accepted in the hobby as legitimate authenticators.

My point is that MOST collectors neither know autographs nor care to study them and their chances of getting an authentic autograph of their favorite star is much better with one of these companies over shopping price on Ebay where the chances are heavily stacked against them.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Poulos on October 20, 2014 at 1:09pm

Randy, I actually agree that novice collectors have a huge edge when buying a PSA or JSA authenticated item.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 20, 2014 at 2:52pm

I'd bet you their exemplar file is filled with bad examples. Unless they go out and collect every one of them in person there is room for error. You got a dealer who brags about selling exemplars to PSA. We talked about it here on this forum.

Great they both have done this for a living for many years. There are hundreds of folks who have done the same for just as long. Just cause you charge a fee does not make you great. What credentials do they have? Years of experience? I've seen them authenticate before. I didn't see them compare the item to hundreds of known exemplars. Do they only do this when nobody is looking?

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Permalink Reply by Randy on October 20, 2014 at 3:05pm

Just like Christopher Williams or Ryan can state authentic/not authentic on Mickey Mantle in an instant, Jimmy Spence can obviously do the same on tons of common autographs he has looked at thousands of times.

Of course, he doesn't need to look at hundreds of exemplars to authenticate Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, etc.

When he is looking at an autograph he is not familiar with, he uses known authentic exemplars for comparison. That is all anyone can do.

It is more than most on this forum can do.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 20, 2014 at 3:35pm

Jimmy Spence can with Mantle and others sure. He does those well. Nobody is talented enough to authenticate thousands of varying signatures in a single glance. Sure there may be a hundred sigs or so they are familiar with where he can do this. Thousands? I'm not buying it. If you feel comfortable with that then cool.....you're not wrong. Everyone has a comfort level. Me personally I'm just not that trusting which isn't wrong either.