We are an eBay affiliate and may be compensated for clicks on links that result in purchases.

Charlton Heston Secretarial Signature Study

Hi:

At Steve Cyrkin's invitation, I'd like to call your attention to a signature study I've posted on my blog, Charlton Heston signature study by Steve Zarelli.

I believe I have identified the "tell" in Charlton Heston secretarial signatures, and if I am correct, the news is not good for most collectors. It appears that most Heston signed photos are secretarially signed.

Here is a synopsis:

The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.

Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."

In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."

I have attached two images to give you a small sampling.

For more details and images, please visit my blog at the link below.

I'd love to hear your feedback and thoughts on this. I fully anticipate some resistance to the theory, because denial is always the first step. In fact, I would love to be proved wrong, because that would mean I wasn't sitting on a bunch of secretary signed photos!

By way of introduction, I have been collecting since the early 90s and I am the UACC Ethics Director.

I look forward to the discussion.

The Collecting Obsession

Regards,

Steve Zarelli

Tags: Charlton, Forgery, Heston, Secretary, authenticating, autograph, secretarial

2 members like this

Attachments: No photo uploads here

Figure 1.jpg, 60 KB
Secretary 1.jpg, 37 KB

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on March 16, 2011 at 1:22pm

I fully agree, It's past using common sense now to see that there is a differnece and what the difference is. Thank GOD for the Alaska photos that were signed in bulk from a noted and true sit-down signing.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:33pm

and just to repeat another one from my collection where the "poor man's R" is more like a "n" but it is not a looped R nor a "dbl L" brand... I am sure some are gonna fight it tooth and nail and while others simply whine and accuse us of being "one-way" but the paradox is that these same people who blame 3rd parties at the drop of a hat change their tune and I find that even odder.

and this one is in the final years before he became infirmed at home.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on March 16, 2011 at 1:33pm

Ditto.

To me, it's no longer just the double L or the "es." The whole "feel" of the suspected secretarial signatures are different. The secretarials are much bolder and heavier. Maybe that is why, in part, they were so deceiving... they looked like they originated from someone as bold and commanding as Heston.

I'm pretty sure that even if the "rl" and "es" were obscured, I could tell the difference now based on everything else.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Clark J. Holloway on March 16, 2011 at 1:27pm

People do have variant signatures, so it may be possible that Heston occasionally used the "Chall' variant when signing in person. But that wouldn't mean that TTM autographs couldn't have been signed by a secretary. The remarkable thing to me is that we've seen no examples of the "Char" variant in a single non-book TTM signature so far. If Heston was really signing photos TTM, we would expect to see at least some with the "Char" variant.

I'd agree it's too soon to say "case closed," and it may complicate things if Heston did indeed use both versions of his signature, but I'd still never trust a "Chall" variant again based on what we've seen so far.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:43pm

but I'd still never trust a "Chall" variant again based on what we've seen so far and neither would I. Unfortunately, there is a tremendous amount of them floating around that have been sold, up for sale, and some auction sites still selling them that will continue to put forth and foster the illusion.

For me, the case is closed. For others, caviat emptor but along the way - you now know which "version" is a safer bet and investment. Like I said sometime ago this is going to blow the lid off some strongly held beliefs.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on March 16, 2011 at 1:45pm

The remarkable thing to me is that we've seen no examples of the "Char" variant in a single non-book TTM signature so far. If Heston was really signing photos TTM, we would expect to see at least some with the "Char" variant.

Apparently, some would have us believe that he deliberately signed with the special LL variant 100% of the time on through-the-mail requests (photos only... NOT books)... and used it in-person twice.

Makes sense. lol

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:53pm

"Makes sense. lol" and did I tell you the one of "this Irishment came out of a bar" No really it can happen. I almost started the rumor that it is the reverse - that the "dbl L" brand were really his and the "Char" ones were from his secretary but all the observed "in-person", questionnaires he sent and so on just screwed that theory up. Then again, now that many of these will be coming off the market as like a wave it takes time I can bet that the forger market will heat up.

No, some might want to buy this exception of Alaska - funny how he signed the picture with an R in person;

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 2:28pm

and the above for your consideration gets better; 1st it is listed as a

Charlton Heston Ben Hur Ten Commandment Signed Book GAI

and then when I question the rep he has no idea of why, when it was obtained and how it was obtained as the warehouse is closed. Ok, so this Irishmen leaves this bar...

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 16, 2011 at 2:44pm

Someone uploaded a "Ben Hur" album, I believe, he claimed was signed TTM by Heston, and it was signed in gold paint pen in the "Char" variety.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Barrucci on March 16, 2011 at 2:42pm

"If Heston was really signing photos TTM, we would expect to see at least some with the "Char" variant".

Yes - this is what I'm saying. I received 7 "Chall"s in the mail at separate times, and not even ONE or TWO of those was the more proper "Char". How could it be that Heston "looped double LLs" every time, when his most regular style in person signature is with a small "r"?

I am 7 for 7 in "Chall" TTM

I am 3 for 3 in "Char" in person!

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dennis on March 16, 2011 at 2:20pm

I sent out over 100 TTM requests when I was in the Army. I was a tank mechanic and when the tanks ran fine, I had plenty of free time. All of the TTM requests were an index card or page from my autograph book. 8x10 photos were too expensive to mail. In the case of Heston, I mailed 2 rolled posters in a mailing tube, after getting permission to send them for signing, but no 8x10's I remember meeting Heston in 1999 as clearly as I remember meeting Vincent Price in 1982. You guys have all ready made up your minds so I'm moving on to find threads about collecting horror stars like Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, Lon Chaney Sr and Jr, Vincent Price etc. While I respectfully disagree with some of the opinions in this thread, I agree with the advice that if you have concerns about the authenticity of any autograph, for any reason, don't buy it. Dennis

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 2:31pm

you might want to check isitreal as they seem to have a pretty good handle on the horrors associated with many signatures... some unfortunately have been poopawed as merely signature variants.

Vincent Price - now that is a keeper and I'd keep that 1st one you posted as well as there are little doubt in my mind on that one.

Come to think of it I am starting to really really disklike Rolf (lol)