Charlton Heston Secretarial Signature Study

 Hi:

At Steve Cyrkin's invitation, I'd like to call your attention to a signature study I've posted on my blog, Charlton Heston signature study by Steve Zarelli.

I believe I have identified the "tell" in Charlton Heston secretarial signatures, and if I am correct, the news is not good for most collectors. It appears that most  Heston signed photos are secretarially signed.

 

Here is a synopsis:

The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.  

Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."

In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."

I have attached two images to give you a small sampling.  

For more details and images, please visit my blog at the link below.

I'd love to hear your feedback and thoughts on this. I fully anticipate some resistance to the theory, because denial is always the first step. In fact, I would love to be proved wrong, because that would mean I wasn't sitting on a bunch of secretary signed photos!

By way of introduction, I have been collecting since the early 90s and I am the UACC Ethics Director.

I look forward to the discussion.

The Collecting Obsession

Regards,

Steve Zarelli

 

Tags: Charlton, Forgery, Heston, Secretary, authenticating, autograph, secretarial

Views: 26123

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Barrucci on March 16, 2011 at 11:57am

I didn't want to say this up to now, but the "es" theory has me baffled. Whether it's the 3 "in person" sigs I have or the 7 "TTM" ones, I'll be darned if I can decipher an "es" formed in the majority of them. In just about every case, the "Heston" is a mess, compared to "Charlton".

 

I really wish I was able to scan some of these for you. The OMEGA MAN lobby card (from the live at ABC signing) is really sloppy, and quite a disappointment since most of Heston's autographs were quite satisfactory, even when the man was catering to a crowd such as this time. Of course, I know it's his signature because he signed it for me and made his "now, that's a gun!" comment -- but man, it is the one single time where even "Charlton" is muddy. Looking at this in-person one right now, it almost appears like "Chmm" (LOL) ... and no, I don't mean to start another theory about double "M"s. :-)   However -- it certainly doesn't look anything like two tall looped "LL's".

But I think Mr. Zipper describes the secretarials well when he says they look like they're on a straight baseline.

 

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:18pm

mis-remembering hmm... thats a good one.

I have seen in the past (including myself) that I have obtained a number of in-person signings and then over time have acquired others that were not from the signing...  some might then go to the next step and claim they came from that signing.  It has nothing to do with "mis-remembering".

we have seen a rushed one from one of the best in-person collectors of all time.  We have seen some on the border.  we have yet to see a conclusive "dbl L" brand one however the ones I had with the "dbl L" brand secretarial or sister signed have been refunded while the other ones that don't have this stand strong all by themselves. 

Thus, I drew my conclusion.   That's the nice part of this - there are two complimenting perspectives that rule out the "variations" and this "he made a "dbl L" instead of an "R". 

Is there an exception out there - perhaps but I haven't seen one that seems to clear the hurdle here.  For that matter it appears just the opposite.

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on March 16, 2011 at 1:22pm

I fully agree,  It's past using common sense now to see that there is a differnece and what the difference is.  Thank GOD for the Alaska photos that were signed in bulk from a noted and true sit-down signing. 

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:33pm

and just to repeat another one from my collection where the "poor man's R" is more like a "n" but it is not a looped R nor a "dbl L" brand...   I am sure some are gonna fight it tooth and nail and while others simply whine and accuse us of being "one-way" but the paradox is that these same people who blame 3rd parties at the drop of a hat change their tune and I find that even odder.

 

and this one is in the final years before he became infirmed at home.

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on March 16, 2011 at 1:33pm

Ditto.

 

To me, it's no longer just the double L or the "es." The whole "feel" of the suspected secretarial signatures are different. The secretarials are much bolder and heavier. Maybe that is why, in part, they were so deceiving... they looked like they originated from someone as bold and commanding as Heston.

 

I'm pretty sure that even if the "rl" and "es" were obscured, I could tell the difference now based on everything else.

Permalink Reply by Clark J. Holloway on March 16, 2011 at 1:27pm
People do have variant signatures, so it may be possible that Heston occasionally used the "Chall' variant when signing in person. But that wouldn't mean that TTM autographs couldn't have been signed by a secretary. The remarkable thing to me is that we've seen no examples of the "Char" variant in a single non-book TTM signature so far. If Heston was really signing photos TTM, we would expect to see at least some with the "Char" variant.

I'd agree it's too soon to say "case closed," and it may complicate things if Heston did indeed use both versions of his signature, but I'd still never trust a "Chall" variant again based on what we've seen so far.
Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:43pm

but I'd still never trust a "Chall" variant again based on what we've seen so far and neither would I.  Unfortunately, there is a tremendous amount of them floating around that have been sold, up for sale, and some auction sites still selling them that will continue to put forth and foster the illusion. 

 

For me, the case is closed.  For others, caviat emptor but along the way - you now know which "version" is a safer bet and investment.  Like I said sometime ago this is going to blow the lid off some strongly held beliefs.

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on March 16, 2011 at 1:45pm

The remarkable thing to me is that we've seen no examples of the "Char" variant in a single non-book TTM signature so far. If Heston was really signing photos TTM, we would expect to see at least some with the "Char" variant.

Apparently, some would have us believe that he deliberately signed with the special LL variant 100% of the time on through-the-mail requests (photos only... NOT books)... and used it in-person twice.

 

Makes sense.  lol

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 1:53pm

"Makes sense.  lol"  and did I tell you the one of  "this Irishment came out of a bar"  No really it can happen.   I almost started the rumor that it is the reverse - that the "dbl L" brand were really his and the "Char" ones were from his secretary but all the observed "in-person",  questionnaires he sent and so on just screwed that theory up.  Then again, now that many of these will be coming off the market as like a wave it takes time I can bet that the forger market will heat up.

 

No, some might want to buy this exception of Alaska - funny how he signed the picture with an R in person;

 

Permalink Reply by DB on March 16, 2011 at 2:28pm
and the above for your consideration gets better;  1st it is listed as a

Charlton Heston Ben Hur Ten Commandment Signed Book GAI

and then when I question the rep he has no idea of why, when it was obtained and how it was obtained as the warehouse is closed.  Ok, so this Irishmen leaves this bar...

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 16, 2011 at 2:44pm
Someone uploaded a "Ben Hur" album, I believe, he claimed was signed TTM by Heston, and it was signed in gold paint pen in the "Char" variety.
Permalink Reply by Michael Barrucci on March 16, 2011 at 2:42pm

"If Heston was really signing photos TTM, we would expect to see at least some with the "Char" variant".

Yes - this is what I'm saying. I received 7 "Chall"s in the mail at separate times, and not even ONE or TWO of those was the more proper "Char". How could it be that Heston "looped double LLs" every time, when his most regular style in person signature is with a small "r"?

I am 7 for 7 in "Chall" TTM

I am 3 for 3 in "Char" in person!

 

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