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Beatles signed promo card

What do you guys think about this promo card.i have an opportunity to purchase it from a private seller.its graded mint 9 psa with a ciazzo loa and tracks loa.its a star pics promo card issued in 63 and it was signed on June 16th 63 I front of an odeon theatre according to the tracks and ciaizzo loa's ,it measures 6x8 inches.

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Permalink Reply by bernie chatzky on February 24, 2015 at 5:32pm

what happens when the authenticator makes a mistake?

still the buyer should keep it because **what the hell** it has a certificate so even if it is a fake still it retains the value?

 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 25, 2015 at 2:38pm

It happens all the time, sadly. Frank Caiazzo was sent the image of a Beatles signed photo to authenticate and remembered at least one of the autographs. Two or three of the same photos had been assembled into a band-signed one.

But they do much more than that. They can take an autograph signed on the thin top layer of glossy paper or cardboard and transfer it to an album. I understand it's so hard to tell it's scary.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 25, 2015 at 2:40pm

One of the top people in paper manipulation and restoration is Jaime Mendez, in California.

Permalink Reply by David K on February 25, 2015 at 2:43pm

 I am SO glad I have only bought in my life less than 10 items from an auction house.(maybe less than 5).. ver y scary. I ef=ven CAUGHT them..was an AEROSMITH signed guitar.. it looked like it had been gone over with a sharpie...I believe three of the signatures were moved signatures..they were def.  authentic signatures..but seemed OFF in inking on the guitar.. had major suspicions the originals  did not start  on that guitar...  very insane to know the truth. That "Madonna" signed guitar may have just been a signed blank glossy sheet ..:(

Permalink Reply by David K on February 25, 2015 at 2:46pm

 Steve..is this forgery, legal, or in a gray area? Non disclosure that the original autograph did not start out on a signed beatles album but on a signed photo of Paul for example..seems very unethical..but is it forgery , or fraud? 

Permalink Reply by Anthony on February 25, 2015 at 2:54pm
You are right Steve. I have seen many examples on various forms like lips and pick guards and it is very hard to tell. So hard that I could only really tell on one signature on an lp and that was only because a defect by the restorer or caused in shipping to the owner. It's hard to believe that it costs so little to get this type of work done.
Permalink Reply by David K on February 25, 2015 at 2:58pm

 So one could actually create a signed guitar from original signatures of people that never in hisotry signed the same guitar.. Morrsion, Dylan, hendrix, Garcia, Mama Cass, and even Elvis ..theoretically they could all be put on same guitar from proper orig. source...

Permalink Reply by Anthony on February 25, 2015 at 3:08pm
Yes, they could add any signature they wanted to it. It looks better with darker, bolder signatures but realistically anything can be done. Keep in mind that if you know this information then so do a lot of people that know there is a lot of money to be made from this. People can usually spot a forgery a mile away or know something isn't right about the signature by looking at a forgery but most people don't know about this topic and don't know what to look for. What they see is their dream piece signed by ALL their favorite people or members of the band on one item and they get reassured by the COA from a reputable third party and they buy them.
Permalink Reply by David K on February 25, 2015 at 3:20pm

See..I always go with gut instinct..if I see something I think could never have been signed by all the people it claims...it really may NOT have been. Do you think a lot of Celebrity auction houses acquire pieces verified authentic by PSA that have "moved" signatures. As you state--PSA is looking at the penmanship /.a

.. I am not sure how or who to contact..but I guess it is possible ot "finish" items..my Eagles guitar needs ONE signature for all 7 Bernie Leadon.if i find a REAL one of Leadon on a photo...can they move it..to the guitar? All the others signed the body. or guard (Was a walden Woods guitar signed by 4 and I got Felder in person and added Mesiner on pickgaurd..jjust need Leadon..hmmm

Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on February 25, 2015 at 4:01pm

I don't see why you would possibly wish to ruin a beautiful piece by adding one over that he didn't sign onto it? I mean, you might as well hire an artist to paint on all the signatures. To me this is the same as taking a preprinted signature and just taking a paintbrush ontop of it. 

Permalink Reply by michelle on February 25, 2015 at 3:07pm

thanks again for your insight Anthony.  It is really spooky

Permalink Reply by Dave Petersen on February 25, 2015 at 9:47pm

Anthony,

The insights you're sharing with collectors will help educate and make them aware of the highly questionable practices being done, and then labeled as  "restoration" of items.  Some of these items have been sold without full disclosure - at quite significant prices - to unsuspecting buyer's/collector's. 

Does the "altered" item become classified as "restored"?   Or "manufactured"?   Or "counterfeit"?

Anthony,  If willing, please let me know if your last name is spelled with eight (8) letters beginning with the letter "F" , ending with the letter "i""' ?     

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