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Baffled by PSA Finding ?

Third Party Independent Authentication is very important in the genre of autographs which we all know is rife with fraud. And, it is no surprise forgers and less ethical dealers loath a service that might "out" their unscrupulous activity or lack of skill in vetting genuine vs fake signatures.

Now that I got that out of the way, on occasion I am baffled by findings of authentic by one of the two reputable authentication services (i.e. PSA or JSA).     So this PSA Certified Marlon Brando that sold last night at Iconic auctions has me scratching my head, "what were they thinking?"...     There are so many reasons why this should never have been certified genuine.   For one, 90% of his signature is missing ?   SO all we have is an "M' and a "B".    And what's with all the squiggly circles at the end ??

But, even if PSA dug up some legal document with a similar exemplar, it is so uncharacteristic; I would question the legal document (i.e. proxy signer).

But , forget all the "yeah but.." arguments that they might retort with.... Why would any authentication service whose reputation is worth more than their annual revenues, stick their neck out to stamp this authentic?   Very Bizarre??

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on March 30, 2015 at 9:46am

Steve,

If there IS a story behind it, they apparently destroyed the evidence...:)

Meanwhile, I am not sure how that theory holds... PSA would not cut out a signature from a document. It would have to be sent to them already cut....

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Permalink Reply by Dan Gregory on March 29, 2015 at 11:38pm

If you took that out of the case and tried to sell it without authentication it would be pulled as a forgery for sure but with a sticker it will no doubt be sold to a sticker collector in the future

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Permalink Reply by Null on March 30, 2015 at 7:31am

Some autographs have no business being "authenticated" regardless of merit. PSA/DNA and JSA are going to take your money whether they "pass" or "fail" your submission, I do not know why they risk their reputation on such bizarre atypical signatures that CANNOT be authenticated. I would have much more respect for TPA's if they simply said some signatures are too atypical to be authenticated, instead of going out on a limb...

Here is an example of a Mattingly that has NO BUSINESS being "authenticated", whether it is real or not:

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Permalink Reply by Rich on March 30, 2015 at 8:51am

Aw, he drew a heart. So you know it's real.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on March 30, 2015 at 9:03am

Both of the items in this topic appear to be cut from something else. It is possible that they were removed from documents that provided context that strongly supported authenticity.

The problem is that removed from that context, you are left with very atypical signatures at best and must place blind faith in the TPA.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on March 30, 2015 at 9:08am

Exactly. For IP stuff obtained by collectors, I like to know signing details and source info, especially for a less than stellar example. TPA's pointlessly erase that info, sometimes for good reason (i.e. it's cryptic or bogus). Likewise, when you cut a signature from a document with no intention of framing a display, it immediately makes me ask why. Just adds to my suspicion.

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on March 30, 2015 at 9:21am

Possible, but if removed from it's provenance, it basically makes the signature worthless now that that only proof/connection to a possible genuine signature is gone..

Also, if I saw this complete, not tampered with, I would question whether Brando signed it or his attorney or manager. I just dont get why he would draw these bizarre lines and squiggles... ?? Ive seen many in person, very sloppy signatures, but all with his full recognizable name.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on March 30, 2015 at 9:27am

I realize that there are people who hold PSA in high regard and will buy the sticker. For me personally, the item is worthless. I don't want it. If I was looking for an authentic Brando, I wouldn't want that for free. I have zero interest in anything that is loaded with question marks and is in all likelihood fake.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on March 31, 2015 at 7:55am

Here is one I found recently. I can't see how this can be authenticated unless it is ITP. By the way, is the little squiggle to the right of his face part of the signature?

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Permalink Reply by Rich on March 31, 2015 at 8:01am

Yeah, we've had a few threads about this. They often slap their sticker on things, no matter how insanely bad they look, based solely on the source and their word. Irresponsible at best.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on March 31, 2015 at 9:52am

I make the same mark when I see if a pen is working or not.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 1, 2015 at 10:04am

Here's the sheet the Brando was cut out of. A friend who's not a member here, and not a fan of PSA/DNA or JSA found it at Heritage. It sold in 2008 for $1,195:

http://entertainment.ha.com/itm/entertainment-and-music/marlon-bran...

It came with a COA from PSA/DNA. Here's the description:

Marlon Brando Autographs. A 4" x 6" notepad sheet with Juno Pictures logo signed three times by Marlon Brando in black ink and once in pencil. The paper also lists dance and wardrobe call times for a scene in the 1995 movie Don Juan DeMarco. Brando loathed signing autographs and even certain documents, and quite often had his personal assistant, Caroline Barrett, sign for him. While on location for Don Juan, he demonstrated versions of his signature for Barrett, hence the multiple signings. In Very Fine to Excellent condition with a fold crease and some mild wear.Accompanied by an LOA from Caroline Barrett. Accompanied by a COA from PSA/DNA.

Goldin Auctions sold this one and the one at the bottom in the same auction. Strangely, they both brought the same price, $444.

http://goldinauctions.com/Marlon_Brando_Signed_Cut-LOT12804.aspx