Am I right to think that the Monroe signature in this photo is secretarial?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 24, 2020 at 10:40pm

Pauline, you’re right… This one’s definitely gonna take a bit of time to figure out.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 24, 2020 at 1:42pm

Here's another Marilyn Pauline asked me to post. It's a signed photo to Joe DiMaggio, so there's a good chance it's no secretarial. ;)

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 24, 2020 at 7:50pm

I guess, in conclusion, if we could score autos out of 5, I would put this at a 3 - or maybe a 2.

My conclusion is inconclusive, because I couldn't find another "and" similar to Monroe's own hand. She normally would miniaturize this abbreviation that looks like a slanted squiggle (between Love, Kisses) - whereas it is rather large, like the secretarial here. And also the "l" in Marilyn is small, whereas the l is at least the height of the capital M usually, and became even larger once it was the "fin" in authentic signings.

On a plus side the MM loops appear to begin at the top on the secretarial whereas Marilyn starts her loops between 3/4s and 1/4 up the shape, as they are on this signing. The other plus is the "Monroe" is clearly stepped down slightly, like a slighter lower mezzanine, which is very normal in authentic signings. Also not much gap is a good sign too.

If it's real, it's a horrible signature that would always have doubt hanging over it. I can normally, definitely go one way or the other, but not this time. It has me stumped.

Very interesting though and thanks to the person who posted it, I hope they return for the discussion. And perhaps post a really clear picture. I think that would be definitive.

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Permalink Reply by Woody2Shoes on February 25, 2020 at 2:44pm

My focus is always on the elements of, and the flow of the signature, not the extraneous/inscriptions. I think far more of the puzzles are solved by focusing on the signature alone.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 25, 2020 at 5:47pm

Here's a Marilyn signed photo currently in RR

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 25, 2020 at 8:24pm

Hi Steve

Thank you for that. In terrific condition and signed around 1947-48. What does RR mean?

So wish I could see the rest of the photo Luciana posted. He hasn't been back I gather.

Although the "To Joe" one has some things in common, I have seen another auto somewhere which is even more similar in the "Marilyn" department, but I just can't find it at the moment. Not that I can upload photos though. But it is probably my computer or browser.

I will send you another really interesting one you might like to put up, even earlier than this. Then another from 1962. Hopefully you can put these two online Steve?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 25, 2020 at 8:57pm

Pauline,

You're not the only person who's had an issue uploading. It works for most of us most of the time. If you haven't rebooted your computer recently, or cleared your browser's cache (no need to delete passwords), try that if you'd like.

I don't recall ever seeing this photo signed before, do you? It's beautiful and frames an inscribed autograph beautifully! I can't date Marilyn autographs, but the photo sure looks late 40s.

RR is the auction house RRAuction.com. They're very careful about authenticity and probably have sold more genuine Marilyn Monroes than anyone over the past 15 years.

You can only see the current auction's lots without an account, but you can register for an account and you don't need to include payment info last I looked.

They probably have 300 Marilyn autographs online, starting in 2008, including lots of signed checks. They sold 550 lots since then but a good number of them were unsigned photos.

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Permalink Reply by Pauline Berry on February 26, 2020 at 12:18am

Wow it's fantastic! I didn't know there was a proper seller like this, I thought Julian's was as good as it got. So many awful, disappointing auction houses on-line. I am signing up as we speak, thanks!

Did you get those other two pictures? 1946 and 1962, but both genuine and both have very similar aspects to Luciana's one. The same "To" on the 1946 one and the same "Love" on the 1962. Still looking for a similar mangled "Marilyn".