Authenticity is Everything
Big-Time Third-Party Authenticator Mistake
Hello, fellow collectors!
I hope 2026 has been kind to you all so far. So look, being experienced collectors, I think most of us are very aware that even the most highly-regarded 3rd Party Authenticators like Beckett (BAS), PSA/DNA, and JSA don’t get things right all the time. Many of us have had head-scratching and sometimes costly experiences in this regard. Well, I recently had one of them. And it cost me a few thousand dollars on eBay.
I sold an Upper Deck Authenticated (UDA) Michael Jordan signed basketball. The ball had the original, authentic UDA hologram from the 2012 signing event at the MJ Flight School Camp in Santa Barbara, California. The hologram is clearly authentic and still in pristine, untampered-with condition. The ball was signed on July 31, 2012. Unfortunately, the original UDA matching hologram COA was lost. HOWEVER, I also have a copy of the email verification that I received from Upper Deck in 2019 on Upper Deck Letterhead.
I know the ball is real because I obtained it from one of my best friends who I’ve been friends with literally since birth. He and his son attended the camp and witnessed the signing along with Upper Deck. So the possibility of it being inauthentic is zero. Not only that, but it looks authentic. I don’t know if I’d say it’s a “classic” Michael Jordan autograph, but I’m not even sure there is a “classic” example. Jordan’s autograph has clearly evolved over the years from his playing days at UNC to his early years with the Bulls to his later career and retirement years. Even since his autograph settled down, his signature can vary actually quite a bit from signing to signing, even from autograph events just a few months apart. And yet there’s still some significant similarities that one sometimes sees. But sometimes he might use a much bigger loop while making the letter “M”. Other times it’s a much smaller loop. Occasionally, there’s a small loop in the middle of the M. Usually there’s not….but sometimes there is. Often MJ has a tiny loop in the “l” at the end of “Michael”. Sometimes though there is not a tiny loop at all in l”. As for the “Jordan” part, there is a LOT of variation, BUT there are some consistencies too, in particular with the slope of the “J” and the slant of the “o” and MJ doesn’t usually close the “o” completely. ALSO, Jordan usually makes a loop on the outside at the bottom of the “M” and crosses over to the inside of the “M” and then slants upward and into the formation of the “ichael”. HOWEVER, sometimes he does NOT make a loop on the outside at the bottom of the “M” and only loops on the inside of the “M” which is the case in my Jordan ball. (EXCITING READING, I KNOW!)
SO ANYWAY, I listed and sold my authentic UDA ball on eBay. In the listing’s description, I noted that if a buyer wanted, for peace of mind, to send the ball to either PSA/DNA or JSA, I gave a money back guarantee it would pass authentication. I had no worries that it would pass because I knew FOR A FACT it was signed by Michael Jordan and WITNESSED by Upper Deck and by my best friend and his son. FURTHERMORE, I also have the Verification Email I received from Upper Deck in 2019 stating, “We can verify that U______5 is an authentic Michael Jordan signed basketball. The ball was signed on July 31, 2012 at Jordan’s Flight School Camp in Santa Barbara, California. The signing was witnessed by an Upper Deck Representative. The item was provided by the camp attendee.”
So the buyer sent it to Beckett (BAS), and Beckett quite erroneously failed it. Now, I must note that Upper Deck has changed their policies since 2019. To begin with, Flight Camp holograms were rarely if ever uploaded to Upper Deck’s main public database. In 2019, I had to email them with the hologram number and wait for a response since it had to be specially looked up in UDA’s private database.
BUT NOW, Upper Deck will only verify UDA items if you have both holograms. Therefore, even BAS could not get it verified with UDA. So one of their authenticators reviewed it. This is what Beckett concluded.
* “The signature has an atypical letter slant, angle, and pitch
• There are baseline issues, including misalignment and undulation
• The signature has been drawn slowly
• The formation of the letters and overlapping of strokes is irregular or unusual
• The signature lacks flow, rhythm, conviction, and spontaneity”
This is COMPLETE jive takin’ as The Bee Gees might say. Blah, blah, blah. This is made up mumbo jumbo nonsense. I’m quite sure BAS has a pre-formulated template to state this stuff. They receive hundreds of submissions daily and likely spend a couple of minutes glancing at your item. The buyer also paid for express service to get it completed within 10 business days which ended up being more like 25 business days.
I know Beckett is WAY backlogged. And I’m pretty sure they spend just minutes on your $3k to $5k basketball. So I highly doubt they look at as many Jordan examples as I do. Authentic Jordan autographs vary a lot. You can see this by exclusively looking at authentic UDA examples. But I doubt the Beckett employee poured over numerous exemplars. They have to keep the line moving. Furthermore, HONESTLY WHAT IS the experience level of the employee who reviewed my authentic example? Did not being able to verify it through Upper Deck bother him? He could clearly see that my UDA hologram was clearly authentic and untampered with. The hologram is PRISTINE.
This should have been a quick and EASY authentication.
And did you hear? BECKETT authenticated over 1,100 FAKE JASON KELSEY signed items including lots of jerseys. The scammer made over $200,000 on these fake Kelsey autographs that Beckett said were all authentic.
So the guy who bought my Jordan ball immediately started calling me a thief and a criminal and was going to file criminal charges against me if I didn’t refund him, all because probably some college intern at Beckett decided to decline my authentic Upper Deck-witnessed Michael Jordan signed item. I kid you not. I could tell my buyer was not an avid autograph collector, but probably had thought of getting an MJ basketball for years and finally decided to buy one. I told him that it was already witnessed by Upper Deck, and Beckett is just an OPINION. He’s the worst buyer I’ve ever dealt with, not that I sell a lot. I mainly just collect.
So ANY THOUGHTS on all this? Has anyone else had an experience like this? I knew a woman who once had Mickey Mantle in her store in KC to sign autographs. I was there. Years later, she still had about 100 Mickey Mantle signed baseballs that were signed by The Mick right in her store. Years ago, she decided to send them to PSA/DNA, and PSA rejected them all!! She witnessed the signing. RIDICULOUS. She was so mad because that cost her A LOT of money.
For whatever reason, AI suggested that I send the ball to JSA….that they might be better at MJ authentication. AI also stated that although authentic UDA holograms have been removed from legit balls and transferred to fake ones, it’s not easily done and usually the holograms will show signs of tampering or will sometimes be destroyed in the process. AI said it’s more often the case where the holograms themselves will be fake and have a dead look to them. AI said my pristine, REAL UDA hologram along with the 2019 verification from Upper Deck is pretty good evidence the ball is authentic. But of course I know it FOR CERTAIN is authentic because I know who got it. And I know they were at the event.
- Signed, very frustrated James
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Josh Board NEW & Improved
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Selling autographs, is one of many reasons stars don't like to sign any more. And it ruins it for the rest of us.
For example, Eric Clapton once signed guitars for a charity. He tried to make his signature look a little nicer than usual, as it was charity. So guess what? The guitars sell for 10K each, or whatever it was. One guy goes to get the cert from a company and it doesn't pass, because it doesn't look like Clapton's "normal" signature. They sue Clapton's charity. At that point, he said -- I will never sign another autograph.
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Permalink Reply by AustinCollector
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Please post pictures of the ball
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Permalink Reply by James
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Generally-speaking, I don’t think it’s all that hard to spot fake Jordan autographs. In most cases, I wouldn’t buy a non-UDA Jordan autograph especially without having much experience. Jordan’s autograph has evolved significantly since his early days with North Carolina and early Bulls’ days. There are still a lot of real Jordan autographs from his career, pre-Upper Deck. A lot of the fake Jordan stuff out there is fairly easy to spot in my opinion. Even the fakes that are a halfway decent attempts are fairly easy to spot with experience. Some are just dreadfully laughable.
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You say you don't want to debate the authenticity. Okay. The debate is over. You have a fake item.
Now, you show a photo -- sure, some will say it looks fake, some say real. You, at that point, don't have to respond if you don't want a debate. But as of now, the ball is worth nothing. There's no cert. Whether companies get it right or not, it's worth nothing. Nobody would buy it, no matter how great a story you have.
At this point, we want to see it out of curiosity. So show us a photo. We've spent our time giving your our opinions on this, I feel it's the least you can do.
(side note: I have to Jordan autographs I got in person, but I just have them on a piece of paper)
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No, sorry Josh. It’s not a fake item. It’s already been authenticated by Upper Deck (UDA). Not only do I have an authentic, pristine, untampered with UDA Hologram on the ball, I have an email from Upper Deck on Upper Deck letterhead from a few years back verifying that it is an authentic Michael Jordan signed basketball. So I have the UDA hologram and the verification email from Upper Deck. Since UDA won’t send replacement COAs, getting a verification email from Upper Deck is what Upper Deck used to recommend as a “replacement” COA. So the ball has indeed been authenticated by Upper Deck which is a WITNESSED authentication not an opinion. So the ball did not even need to be sent to Beckett because it’s already been witness verified by UDA.
I’m not a novice collector/. I’ve been involved in over 4,000 discussions over 12 years here on AML which you can “verify” if you look at my profile. I see you’ve been in around 300 discussions. I started this particular discussion for 2 reasons. 1) To vent, and 2) to ALERT people that the TPAs can really screw you over. Most experienced people on this site are aware of this. Josh, my friend….i encourage you to search discussions on this site because over the years, there has been outrage about the NUMEROUS MISTAKES that TPAs have made. Search, please. There are lots of discussions about this topic.
Unfortunately, there have been some members here over the years that just like to enjoy antagonizing people and start arguments because they seem to enjoy it. Obviously with participation in over 4,000 discussions, I used to be a very active member on this site. I know some people left because they got sick of people who just wanted to pick fights.
Instead of starting an argument, a better response might have been, “Oh Dude….that sucks. Obviously you know it’s real, and some random guy with unknown experience declares your ball not authentic.” Josh, the fact is whether one’s item gets passed or not depends TREMENDOUSLY on which authenticator at Beckett reviews your item. If another person at Beckett had picked it up, their opinion quite likely would have been different. My ball may have been reviewed by a 23 year old new hire with limited experience who looked at a couple of Jordan exemplars and then decided it was inauthentic.
I also encourage you to look through authentic UDA basketballs on eBay signed by Jordan. There are TONS of SIGNIFICANT VARIATION in authentic Jordan autographs. So do I think the person at Beckett who reviewed my ball spent much time pouring over numerous Jordan examples? No I don’t, particularly since the buyer paid for express service. Beckett apparently is WAY BACKLOGGED BY THE THOUSANDS. That’s why they’ve SUBCONTRACTED out to other services to review autographs under the Beckett name…..as a result 1100 fake Jason Kelsey autographs got authenticated as real.
By reporting this to you all, I thought I was doing a service to this community. The intention was not to start a fight. THIS IS SILLY. And I sure as heck wouldn’t be trying to VENT about an autograph I knew was fake that didn’t get passed. What would be the point in that? I wouldn’t have even posted a discussion.
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Permalink Reply by John Kimball
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Could kindly post photo of ball and hologram sticker?
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James, do you have any specific questions, or any actual value, you’d like to add to the forum?
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Oh….i think I’ve added value to the forum by simply reminding people of the FACT that the TPAs often screw up. Again, as I’ve said most experienced collectors KNOW THIS. One of the problems is that no one usually knows which Beckett, PSA, or JSA authenticator actually reviewed your item. Some of it comes down to whether you got a good experienced reviewer of your item. Even within the same company, not all of the authenticators agree. IT IS AN OPINION. There are MANY experienced collectors on this website who have more experience and expertise than many of the authenticators at the Big 3 TPAs.
If you have the belief that these TPAs are always correct, then you have been collecting long. As I noted, an old acquaintance of mine had Mickey Mantle in her store in a KC suburb in the early 90s. Years later she still had about 100 in-person Mickey Mantle signed balls she sent into PSA/DNA which rejected them all. My guess is that it had something to do with the fact that she sent into so many at once, and someone assumed they must be fake because why would she have so many and how did she get them? Simple. She owned a sports memorabilia store and had a private signing with Mickey. I was there in her store at that very signing.
Based on some of these response, I think some of you aren’t real experienced in autograph collecting so this is news to you that the TPAs make mistakes. I’m an experienced collator. Am I an expert on everything? Hardly. But are the TPAs? Certainly not. I’ve been a member here though for 12 years so I’ve read through lots of discussions. And TPA screw-up are nothing new…..but it’s very frustrating and expensive when it happens to you.
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Furthermore, I think I added value through this discussion just by letting you know that recently Beckett authenticated over ONE THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED FAKE JASON KELSEY AUTOGRAPHS. Apparenlty, Beckett subcontracted out some of their submissions to another party whom Beckett paid to authenticate them under the Beckett name. So you see….you never know who the heck is authenticating your stuff and what their expertise is.
In 2008, I was at a card show in KC where Bill Russell was signing. PSA/DNA was onsite authenticating autographs. PSA had two authenticators authenticating. Their 2 “experts” looked to be maybe 20 years old. They weren’t any of the experts at the bottom of their letter. These were kids. So again, it may be some college kid with little experience who’s actually looking at your item.
So how long have you been on AML? How long have you been collecting? Are you aware of the countless TPA mistakes? Ever hear of the multimillion dollars fake autograph ring run by the Marino brothers? Many of their fake Babe Ruth balls were forged by the Marino brothers and were authenticated by PSA and others. You should look into it.
Btw, “Quick Opinions” for $10 - $20 on eBay by PSA and Beckett are a complete waste of money and reliability. I’m just trying to help some people that may be inexperienced to understand that you can’t solely rely on just the name on the COA.
The TPAs many times do get it right, but be sure not to simply rely on their opinion alone.
But I’ll wrap things up now. Thanks.
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I’m siding with PSA on this one. Obvious forgery, and I’m surprised anyone would think otherwise.
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Permalink Reply by MikeEarmantraut
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Did They upload an image and delete it? I looked through and couldn't find the picture,granted I know nothing about Jordan sigs, it would be cool to see what all the fuss is about.
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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23
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I read through OP's post. Three things:
1) There will always exist a possibility that an item has a fake autograph, even if you know the daisy chain of ownership.
2) Buyer beware.
3) Authenticators can, and do, make mistakes.
If there's one piece of advice I can give you on this forum, is that there is no foolproof way to 100% guarantee authenticity from something you haven't witnessed yourself in person.
When I buy autographs, it's always with the understanding that there is a non-zero chance that I'm purchasing a fake. I have books with various ephemera, including autographs that were obtained at book launches, supporting letters that were also signed by the author or signer, photographs of the signing ceremony and other documentation that tells me the daisy chain of ownership.
In every single case, there is no way to 100% guarantee authenticity. I'm basically buying an autograph with the understanding that there's always a chance that it could be faked.
I've posted this story before, but I had a book several years back - Phil Esposito's memoir, Thunder and Lightning, which was signed on the title page. I knew exactly when the signing ceremony was, where it was signed, who was the original owner of the book, and when it was passed down to a third party, which I subsequently bought. Yet, I gave it to a friend of mine who collects sports books, and he told me right off the bat that it was most likely faked or secretarial.
You yourself commented that you've been a member of this board for many years. You likely already know the infamous Beatles fiasco from last year where a new member came on the board and swore up and down that he had a full set of the band's signatures, which were allegedly passed down to him from his father, who was a pilot on a flight the band was on. He swore up and down that they had provided legitimate signatures, even when the board concluded that was most likely that the picture the pilot gave to the representative was taken in the back and signed secretariately, that handed back to the pilot, who went back to his son and gave him the photo years later under the impression that it was legitimate.
Signatures change over the years. Signatures can be secretarial. Signatures could be done out of sight of a fan or recipient, then given back to them after the fact but with them none the wiser. There are a myriad of reasons why something may be considered fake or inauthentic by a third party authenticator.
I've seen enough stories on this board to know that everyone has a story, and that unless you yourself witness the ceremony and videotape the entire encounter from start to finish, there's always going to be a lot of doubt that an item is authentic. I don't go to authenticators with most of my collection, because it's mostly esoteric Canadian signers. There's always going to be the possibility that someone faked or otherwise tried to pull one over on me by selling me a book that had a fake signature.
That's doubly true for any online purchase. I've had my share of purchasing fake signatures, just like everybody else. You learn and live with the experience. It sounds like you made a deal and sold a basketball, that you thought was 100% authentic, to another buyer and expressly agreed to refund if the product wasn't up to their standards.
It looks like that case was taken to its logical conclusion. Not condoning what this buyer did, but it's important to know that these types of situations do happen.
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