Authenticity is Everything
Billie Holiday Autograph
I purchased this 78 vinyl record purportedly signed by Billie Holiday from an RACC trusted seller. I recently submitted the item to JSA for authentication, and unfortunately it did not pass.
I originally submitted it in person at a show here in CA a few weeks ago, and I was disappointed by how carelessly the item was handled during intake. When I received it back, there were fingerprints all over it. I contacted JSA immediately to report the condition, and they did expedite the review process.
Yesterday I received their letter confirming that the autograph did not pass authentication. I’m extremely disappointed and unsure what my next step should be, or if anyone here might be able to offer advice.
Prior to purchasing the item, I did my research and examined the signature characteristics—such as the looping of “Billie” and the shape of the “H” in “Holiday.” However, upon further inspection, the signature appears to have been written in ballpoint pen. Additionally, the Blue Ace label is known to be a bootleg label, and this particular pressing seems to have been released slightly before the time of her passing.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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I'm looking for observations that indicate this is authentic, not "excuses." YMMV.
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on
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Interesting discussion.
I would agree with Findbooks' observations about the flow of the autograph. It just doesn't look like someone wrote this "in person" in a hurry. I also wonder whether someone would have really had the idea of taking a 78 along to a concert to get it autographed. They certainly wouldn't have been selling them at a "merch. table" at the event. If this is a reputable RACC trusted seller I presume this wasn't a bargain purchase and that he/she would be happy to take it back given your JSA opinion.
I have a Holiday myself but I'm certainly not an expert on her autograph. Here are a couple of images showing mine. It was signed in person in Basel, Switzerland in 1954. It certainly has much more of a flow than yours.
Close-up
Full image
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Permalink Reply by Ryan Wolfson on
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Thanks for sharing your piece. I’m certainly no expert, but mine was actually purchased on eBay from a seller with impeccable feedback who is highly respected. It wasn’t overly expensive—I simply wanted a Holiday autograph that didn’t have the typical “To Joe” or inscription to a random person. I also thought the “’78” was super cool.
Your signature definitely has more flow and resembles the examples that have been authenticated. Not to justify mine as being real, but I keep coming back to other examples of her penmanship and noticing that there are variations in how she signed.
For example, the page in the book I posted earlier in the thread has a fairly noticeable difference in style compared to yours and the more typical Holiday signature we tend to associate with her.
I also feel that if this was in fact signed on the record, the surface itself could make things more difficult than signing on a sheet of paper. Because of that, I can see how the flow might not be exactly the same. I’m having Roger Epperson have a look and offer his opinion.
Here’s a quick history of the piece according to the seller…
If I recall, the record first originated from a radio station in Hawaii. Blue Ace Records reissued jazz records in the 40s and 50s. There is record that she played the Continental Room in Honolulu around 1950. But I’m not sure if the exact date is known—a handbill exists. I figure it was signed then. It was in my personal collection for a while.
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Thanks Ryan.
I just found your 78 on the eBay completed listings. I'm pretty sure that a knowledgeable dealer would have been asking more than $1,000 if he or she was 100% confident that this was real. It seems that the dealer even accepted a lower offer from you. If it was a Buy-It-Now listing I would have thought that someone would have pounced on it immediately at the full price if "the market" considered it real. The lack of provenance also doesn't help.
You say yourself that having a 78 signed is "super cool" so the price should have reflected this.
Unless Roger is more confident about the autograph I would return it rather than spend another $200 or so on another formal authentication procedure.
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I already disputed the charge. Seller never responded unfortunately.
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If you make an "I want to return this item" request I don't think the seller has any choice but to respond.
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It is more than 30 days, no? The seller did not respond to a dispute? Charge back, no?
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There is that"o" and "da" again...
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Just sent to Roger
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"Just sent to Roger" - Ryan 39 minutes ago.
Reply by Ryan ust heard from Roger Epperson to get his take."
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"If this is a reputable RACC trusted seller I presume this wasn't a bargain purchase and that he/she would be happy to take it back given your JSA opinion." = Eva
Is this verified? It seems not if they won't even respond?
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I disputed w/ financial institution
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I have little experience with returns in either direction. Perhaps Steve C. can advise?
"Furthermore, Blue Ace was a bootleg jazz label that pressed records after Billie passed so how was this even signed? Unbelievable" - From your feedback. This is not true or? I came up with 1956?
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