Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on March 4, 2015 at 5:03pm

I am just saying hey guys check out these patterns I am seeing. Lets all take a look at this and rethink things. Every type of fake whether it be forged or secretarial was once thought real till patterns emerged and there was enough evidence to know better. And AGAIN, I am not saying these are fake, I am saying I am questioning them because they all share some similar traits and they are coming up often over the last 10 years, and I never saw ones like this before that.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 4, 2015 at 7:14pm

There certainly can be new forgeries that get past experts for a while. But for a new style of Harrison signature to come out after his death and not be caught by top Beatles experts seems quite unlikely.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on March 4, 2015 at 7:30pm

How good are the guys Steve? The top experts. I was a little afraid when I read some of the comments on the reinked thread.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 4, 2015 at 8:30pm

I think that the top Beatles specialists, Frank Caiazzo, Paul Wane and Jason Cornthwaite of Tracks, Roger Epperson and Perry Cox, are exceptionally good at them. It's highly unlikely that they would see a quantity of a new signature variation and approve them without careful investigation.

I don't know the procedures they go through to identify re-inking or transfers of autographs, and I haven't been following that discussion carefully. I just commented on the transfer process I know about. I do know that all are on the alert for things like that, but could a very sophisticated and deceptive procedure get past them? Possibly. You may want to ask them.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on March 4, 2015 at 8:34pm

Im waiting a reply from one of them. I hope their up to speed with it now days. What do you know about the beatles library? A catalogue of beatles autographs?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 4, 2015 at 8:58pm

The Beatles Library doesn't ring a bell. Tell me about it.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on March 4, 2015 at 9:06pm

I were hoping you tell me about it.
From what I heard is, its what authenticators refer to if a Beatles autograph set or part set has been sold before and where it was signed if applicable.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 4, 2015 at 9:12pm

Sounds like you're referring to an expert's exemplar images and images of items that he's seen.

Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on March 4, 2015 at 10:37pm

The thing is these guys have made so much money selling these autographs over the last 20 years to come on a public forum and admit, they have been potentially authentication a new forger's signature for the last few years would be pretty devastating to their business and reputation so it will never happen. They might come on here and give us a general statement like "we think they are authentic" but they will never admit fault or admit they will need to reevaluate.

I am not even saying for these are bad, I am saying everyone needs to slow down and look as the evidence I put forth because we could have a serious issue here.

In truth, I am hoping someone shows me proves me wrong.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on March 5, 2015 at 2:28am

Once again, to be fair, they have put their names out their (Caiazzo, Cox, Wane, Epperson) for years. They are responsible for their reputation. N.Steiger you've already stated before that you won't give your real name because of your work and other personal issues, so to be fair it is much easier to come on to a forum when you have nothing to lose if you're wrong (which you yourself admitted you could be wrong or that you are merely speculating) you can say what your experience is, but you can't prove it to us because you won't give all of us that information. Caiazzo, Wane, Cox, and Epperson we can find all types of information about them. 

Yes EVERYONE needs to slow down and make sure what they are buying is correct. However you basically are saying trust me because I have years of experience and I have no skin in the game. I would suggest opening up more about who you are before you put these guys to task honestly. 

Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on March 4, 2015 at 4:43pm

Another thing I notice was the book and the card on the top right are signed with a nib tip pen. You can tell by the thickness of the ink in some areas and not in others. If you ever did calligraphy in high school you'd understand what I am talking about. These two were 100% signed by the same hand, which may have been George, IDK, and I can tell the angle of the pen was used is identical judging by matching thick and thin ink strokes. Now to used a nib tipped pen correctly to get proper flow you have to hold it at that angle (this signer was right handed BTW) so necessity could justify how he signed something but looking at these real ones and others I see a pretty consistent pen pressure and ink thicknesses (the ink on the top example is a bit light, likely due to a dried out pen)  which tells me he signed with the pen going more straight up and down from the material being signed as appose to how you need to sign with a calligraphy pen like this.

Again, this isn't to say George never signed at two different angles as the situation could dictate. I am merely bringing attention to patterns I see in the ones I am questioning because most of the ones I am concerned about were signed with a similar black nip tipped pen. I just wish I had saved images of all of them. BTW, the third one I am questioning (top middle) is signed with a ball point but I do see inconstant ink thicknesses but I can tell it was signed with the same angle as the other two.

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Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on March 5, 2015 at 2:37pm

If someone can show me a Harrison with the two rr's identical and closed with no loops that is a slam dunk authentic autograph, meaning it has a iron clad dedication or it is with other signatures that has been on the market since before I started seeing these several years ago I will drop my case. I just had had not remember seeing this style before a few years ago and now I keep seeing them on a regular basis. Mostly with this nip tipped pen.

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