Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by RB on April 21, 2012 at 2:08pm

I can't speculate how a person signed a document (in a rush, while with an injured thumb etc) and do not profess to be an expert. I can only go on the faith of the documentation I receive. Is my 1926 baseball with Ruth and Gehrig amongst other teammates a fake which I also bought at the Halper auction? I don't know because I'm not an expert. Where are you employed that has helped you develop some experience at a least raising a red flag on items?

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on April 21, 2012 at 2:38pm

What do you mean by employed?  Many of us, like myself, are self-taught when it comes to autographs. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 21, 2012 at 2:20pm

RB said he bought the Munson in the Barry Halper auction, so unless you have a copy of the auction catalog that proves otherwise, please don't beat him up for potentially being sold a forgery.

Who would have thought at the time that you couldn't buy at the sale with confidence?

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Permalink Reply by RB on April 21, 2012 at 2:35pm

Steve thank you very much for your support and understanding that I only can go by what I have since I am an amateur collector who spent over $10,000 at the Halper auction. I will post my receipt for the Munson here some time this weekend. I wonder if the signature looks odd to some of these folks because it is on a sports illustrated photo from the magazine according to the sale rather than a glossy photo. I'm relying on Sotheby so in my mind everyone here is challenging Sotheby not me and while I have confidence in Sotheby (though now a lot less) I'm not sure of everyone else's expertise. Nonetheless I appreciate the heads up by all and I am now on a mission to determine if Sotheby is right or Mr. Williams and others here are.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 21, 2012 at 2:57pm

RB, I don't know Munson's autograph, but I'd be surprised if Chris and the others aren't right. Sotheby's is a good company but authentication knowledge grows by the year, and as Harry said, the Halper sale included a number of controversial to unquestionably fake or incorrectly attributed lots. 

Good luck with this.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on April 21, 2012 at 2:36pm

Steve, no one is beating up, RB.  This is about the Munson autograph. 

Many of us still remember back in the 1990's when the Home Shopping channels sold approximately $750,000 in Mantle, Williams, etc., forgeries, of which many, are finally surfacing and being sold by the original purchasers. 

A ton of this type of stuff, after sitting around for over a dozen years, is finally seeing the light again, and unfortunately the buyers are discovering what they really have.

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Permalink Reply by RB on April 21, 2012 at 2:49pm

I appreciate your comments and I understand that you are not beating me up. FYI this signature is on a sports illustrated page with his photo on it rather than a traditional glossy. By the way, if I want a full opinion rather than the quick opinion where can I go?

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on April 21, 2012 at 3:09pm

RB, here is a link to the PSA website.  That's where you can go to print a submission form and then send it to PSA.

http://www.psacard.com/services/auto_authentication.chtml

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 21, 2012 at 3:13pm

RB, both PSA/DNA and JSA have offices in New Jersey, not far from Manhattan. Either would be a good choice. Unfortunately, I believe Sotheby's authenticity guarantee is 5 years. Better than many auction houses, but I'm afraid you'll find you aren't covered...but you should definitely talk to them.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 21, 2012 at 3:00pm

Beating up was too strong a word, sorry. It just sounds like he's being considered suspect when he may just be a victim. 

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on April 21, 2012 at 3:12pm

I just got back from a day trip, so I have not been able to respond since I originally posted this.  I have to say that the forgery is so bad, that I made what appears to be an incorrect assumption that the listing was misrepresented.  I do believe that the lister is an innocent victim, because as Steve mentioned, why would someone question Sotheby's back then?  We all thought that HSC and these auctions with documentation guaranteed authenticity. We all know better now.

But make no mistake, that signature is not Munson's.  As Christopher said, we are not employed and do not get paid to study autographs, we do it because its an important hobby to all of us. And each of us have certain autographs that we study and become very good at.  Munson is one of my studies and you dont have to look any further than the T to determine that its bad.  Im sorry that you were a victim on this, but it needs to be taken off of the market.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on April 21, 2012 at 3:19pm

Agreed.  That entire Munson sig is a mess.  It should be destroyed.   I do hope that somehow RB can get his money back.

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