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This is the place for the discussion as to the follow-up for the secretarial study thread.
That thread; proposed;
The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.
Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."
In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."
and it seems to have merit. However, in looking at hundreds of Hestons of late there are many that fall into the above theory and yet quite a few variations that aren't so clean. There are no sacred cows in this thread but do keep it civil.
Bear in mind as you cascade thru the many examples below there are clearly some that fall into this, some that don't and an interesting variation.
Some commentors have been quick to point out that dealers and sellers of these items may have fallen into following a "bogus" exemplar. I will post Jan Schray's exemplars and the "secretarial" one touted here will be found in her 1997 exemplar book. Thus, without a date on COAs it's hard to tell when something was sold.
Cyrkin in the other thread opted to close it with a number of justifications; ... indisputable work. It's at risk of being adulterated by Hestons being presented as either genuine, out and out forgeries, or variations of known secretarials without the painstaking, focused research and consensus-building that made this study so valuable in the first place. That's beyond the scope of this discussion and is putting the study's clarity and integrity at risk.
I for one could not disagree with this rationale moreso. It is thru the posting of perceived hestons that either lends support, refutes or enhances the theory. I noticed the updates to the original blog include; I will note that, out a hundreds of exemplars, I found a handful of books that did not have a distinct "r" formation. My theory is these books may have been through-the-mail exemplars signed by a secretary. The reason for this could be that Mr. Heston's schedule did not allow for signing at that time or, once his illness took hold, secretaries began signing books through the mail as well as photos.
I've also noted this in same discussion with Zipper and there was a suspicion that other forgeries were apparent. it is the continued flow of questionable non-authentic items that gives strength to any theory. I'll attempt to capture the many examples before they are arbitrarily removed.
6/13/12 - Rules of the Thread;
R1 - stay on subject (don't care for moderated blogs but since owners of threads have little recourse to have comments removed at their discretion).
R2 - if you are going to post a link than at a MINIMUM post the picture of the item. The secretarial study thread has a number of links to non-existent photos. Esp Ebay ones as they have been removed by EBAY or no longer visible. If you don't know how then after you post the comment pm me and I'll capture the picture for posterity.
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I'd like to think not purposely since they were "authorized signers" but I continually wonder what they were thinking vis-a-vis today's world of authentic signatures.
Great new examples of authentic Heston's, Mike. Very nice items. I have believed Carol Lanning was the signer, but never had any real evidence for it. I wouldn't call it conclusive - it just seems like the case has been built up that more likely than not it was Ms. Lanning.
I do see a number of authentic Charlton Heston autographs sell on eBay and that's a good thing. It still doesn't feel good to see people purchase secretarials or fake. Although I'm sure there will never be a way to totally stop that.
Mike, 'bout time you got back in the "game". Welcome back. The single ones are almost digestable but when the multi-signed ones are ruined it is just aggravating to the max.
I'm surprised on the landing card being available. We had this debate on a Dylan one (also in the UK) and if it was listed in the US would or could it be confiscated. Never did get an answer from the FAA after the DOT felt they could provide the answer. Maybe time to uncover my FSDO contacts!
have you noticed that it appears on EBAY the ones that were listed as orginals but secretarials appear to have returned as RPs? Also looks like Brick is detecting more forgeries now the the Challs are uncovered.
Hi DB - Don't you go getting my Landing Card signature confiscated!!! I agree with you on the Ebay ones. Here is one total fake on there at the moment as a RP! Just horrible! There are more and more fakes appearing, but the 'Challs' are still out weighing them somewhat.
Nice to see some very nice genuine ones on Ebay though. The prices being asked are always a good indicator. This Planet of the Apes one is a beauty..
Authentic item! I don't do values very well, because what you'll get for it and what it's worth are two different things. The current value is probably in the neighborhood of $20-$50.
Anyone looking for a Heston signed book? Here's a beauty on eBay for a $21.50 Buy It Now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Actors-Life-Journals-1956-1976-by-Charl...
Even has a nice "Merry Christmas" inscription. I'd hit it myself if I already didn't have this book.
FWIW, I am not the seller and don't know who the seller is. Just trying to pass on a good deal.
In the spirit of sharing nice deals on authentic items, this seller, not myself, has five Moses pictures from the private signing Heston did available. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Charlton-Heston-autograph-8x10-photo-as-MOS...
I'd characterize $46 as a good deal. Very good for anyone who wants a signed Moses pose and hasn't picked one up yet.
That is the same seller I bought mine from some time ago. 100% good.
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