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Authenticity is Everything
Is this ebay seller ok?: dirty_water_ink
Hi,
This guy has a lot of stuff but it seems to be done by GA, not GAI. How does he look and is GA better than GAI? I know the backstory and that GA had some mantle issues, but is GA a complete waste of time?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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DB, what unfounded claims of 30,000 items and unnamed warehouses are you referring to? I got most of my information from the president of GAI at the time, so it's not unfounded.
Painting authenticators and sellers with a broad brush is perfectly acceptable in my book. If a large percentage of the autographs someone offers or autheticates are bad, then collectors need to know it.
We're here to protect collectors...not dubious sellers and authenticators.
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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When I say unfounded is there any independent verification. Was the outgoing president of GAI a disgruntled employee? Why didn't the outgoing GAI President not bring it to the greater community via major news sources that his operation had just handed out certifications on 30,000 bogus item.
There is no doubt in my mind as I have expressed numerous times that GAI items have been tainted as a result but why is it that you are the only messenger of this information. Why hasn't he come online and come clean with just how bad GAI became and when so it's not the messenger who takes the incoming?
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He didn't say they were fake. He was still with GAI at the time and thought they were good. We're talking about Mantles, Williams and DiMaggios like the ones later sold at Always at Auction mostly authenticated by Morales, Drew Max and TTA. Obvious forgeries.
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thanks for the clarification as I had been under the impression based on statements through-out the threads that we were talking about a warehouse of some 30k items that weren't authentic and simply certified.
It sounds like a subset then that consists of, IYO, of Mantle, Williams & DiMaggios. Did he ever provide a full list of what that warehouse contained that was certified? If not, maybe you can see if he would provide as where there is Manlte/William & Jumpin Joe there are sure to be more.
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DB,
There was no warehouse with autographs stashed away for decades. That's the story GAI was told to explain where they came from.
All I asked him (Steve Rocchi) about were Mantles, Willams and DiMaggios because they were suddenly flooding the market and I was getting lots of reports of the fakes. -
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Mike,
I don't think I've made any accusations, blanket or otherwise, about Global Authentics or GAI. And if I said everything authenticated by GA is not good, please point that out, because I didn't mean to. I meant to say that outside of NASCAR, the vast majority of what we've seen authenticated by Global Authentics isn't genuine in our (Autograph's) opinion.
Comments like "Blanket accusations don't help the autograph collecting hobby..." is something I hear a lot. But I never hear it from collectors. I hear it from sellers and authenticators of autographs, mostly ones I'm concerned about. Collectors want to know the truth.
I'm shutting down now, but we can pick this up tomorrow.
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Permalink Reply by Michael T on
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Hey Steve, I am all good with the truth. I was a collector long before I was a dealer so you are 'hearing' it from a collector/dealer.
I just get upset at blanket statements no matter the topic or forum. Especially when there would really be no way to fully back a statement up.
To summarize my position- truth=good, unprovable blanket statements=bad
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I don't think I've said anything I can't back up. And just to clarify, I stand by my opinion that the vast majority of autographs I've seen that were certified by GA are not genuine, besides NASCAR.
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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on
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Liam, have you ever asked Ebay seller dirty_water_ink how he has acquired literally thousands of in-person autographs, including dozens and dozens of Derek Jeter autographs on bats, baseballs, jerseys and photographs? Whenever they list and sell any autograph, they list another of the same right behind it.
Below is a link to their Recently Completed Auctions:
http://www.ebay.com/csc/dirty_water_ink/m.html?LH_Complete=1&_i...
Looks to me (from over 18 months of observation) like they have an infinite inventory of autographs from hundreds of athletes. In the past I can't count the number of Cam Newton, Pat Sullivan and Bo Jackson autographed helmets and footballs they have sold.
Sellers use GAI in their title descriptions because buyers are familiar with the acronym GAI. GAI is not on Ebay's prequalified authenticator list, but Global Authentics (GA) is, but since everyone is so familiar with the acronym GAI that is what they use in their title descriptions. I believe GAI went out of business two years ago.
My opinion of Global Authentics is reflected in my Global Authentics Derek Jeter blog here on AML.
They recently sold two Aaron Rodgers signed items.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=aaron&_sacat=0&_odkw=&a...
Below is a link to their present Aaron Rodgers autograph listings. From what I can recall, they (dirty_water_ink) have never had less than ten (10) Aaron Rodgers autograph auctions listed at any given time over the past 18 months. Does Ebay seller dirty_water_ink have a autograph contract with Aaron Rodgers? How many Aaron Rodgers autographs have they sold over the past 18-24 months? All of their autographs are authenticated by Global Authentics.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=aaron+rodgers&_sacat=0&...
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You did however leave out that GAI was on EBAY's prequalified authenticator list for quite some time before they folded. In fact, they were there for some time after they folded and have been replaced by GA. The current list of "reputable" autograph authenticators according to ebay as you well know are;
Autographs
Authenticate sports autographs and memorabilia with:
Pre-certified autograph companies:
Incidently, I've asked Livingston and JD on several occassions about the "consignor" of items that are very questionable. ToDate, they have never responded with who the consignor was so it is erroneous thinking because someone doesn't relay where they obtained something that they must be up to no good. That is but one possibility.
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Absolutely correct, DB, GAI was on Ebay's prequalified authenticator list.
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The best we can do is provide what we think within our realms of expertise.
To quote one very sr. official at ebay (loosely as was stated to me), "if we banned every seller or dealer that sells non-authentic items there would be very few left to choose from".
If I'm going to spend several hundred dollars I either get it from one with impeccable sources like Coolwater or ask lots of questions about provenance. If the seller doesn't respond, "next". Even, if there is a response it could still result in "next".
I have authentic GAI items and we have laid to rest a few rumors such as the 500 baseball one thread based on information supplied by Sipe.
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