Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 5, 2012 at 10:17am

DB,

When I bought Starbrite, which was primarily modern entertainment autographs, I had the inventory checked. We pulled everything that came from one supplier, because he was a known forger that I believe went to prison. We went through the other material, too.

Modern entertainment is especially tough, because signatures change fairly often and are likely to be little more than scribbles. There's also the apparent problem that a lot of in-person professional collectors seem to salt their inventory with forgeries, so it can be especially treacherous.

I was confident with what we offered, but if someone who knew their stuff told me they were concerned about a piece, I pulled it. Sometimes I'd get other opinions if I thought they were off, but I usually just took it down and threw it in the likely fake box.

Does that make me a crook? You tell me.

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Permalink Reply by DB on June 5, 2012 at 10:54am

Each person draws their own conclusions on these questions.  Personally, I would hope not as there would be no hope for anyone if that were the case.   Nor can anyone believe w/o evidence that dirty_water_ink is a crook either.  I have lost count when approaching a seller/power seller on ebay who have either replied (when they do) with 1. who the hell are you  or 2. Don't tell me, go complain to the authentication company and/or 3. so what exactly are your credentials.  Contrary to Aring's belief the only area I like to debunk are areas when there is innuendo without substance even if there are good questions.

Modern entertainment is especially though, because signatures change fairly often and a likely to be little more than scribbles. There's also the apparent problem that a lot of in-person professional collectors seem to salt their inventory with forgeries, so it can be especially treacherous.

and that is where all the debate comes from especially on modern entertainment.  Sports while more contained also has these problems and what has been stated here numerous times is that because someone gets someone signing an item in the public way is not the end all be all to how the signer signs in general. 

If GA is authenticating non-authentic items as what has been asserted here and elsewhere then they are incompetent if the evidence supports it.   If they are doing it knowingly to simply make revenue as GAI did in the end that would make them crooks imo.  

Trying to pidgeon hole the seller or dovetail a seller into this same scenario requires a different approach that most of us will seldomly uncover.  Recall the story from Aring about the woman with the guitar who obviously thought Aring was completely wrong and obtained an ACE Authentic Cert.   Does that make her incompetent or a crook if she tries to resell it?

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Permalink Reply by DB on June 5, 2012 at 12:29pm

then the TTM heston's were recently discovered and who knows what else may still be leftover or for that matter were sold to unsuspecting buyers.   

The point to the analogy is that many around here tend to try character assassination based on antedoctal evidence. 

just like in the other thread of woody allen when you felt it was a secretarial but it appears probable it wasn't -or- in the one selling who "claims" he got a few in person.

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Permalink Reply by DB on June 5, 2012 at 12:50pm

correction - I didn't call starbrite crooks... but if we use antedoctal evidence

then this statement;

Company Description: Starbrite Autographs is your place on the Internet where you can get 100% In Person collectibles, photos and memorabilia. You will be able to see the item before you decide to get it for yourself or someone else as a gift.

 

was just as misleading even if thought to be true then the one above that williams just commented on has the same emphasis.   If dirty_water_ink (and it's a big if) is purposely misleading (and validating that fact is difficult) then it puts it into a different category.  Perception is not factual reality.  The greater majority of items offered are certed and that adds a different layer to the discussion.

 

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Permalink Reply by DB on June 6, 2012 at 3:20am

I think we have beaten this death and hijacked the thread.  If you want to open a boxing match thread, I'd be happy to go toe to toe on it.

Permalink Reply by DB on June 6, 2012 at 10:13am

Aring, you provide as usual no supporting information nor evidence to support your claim here nor is there any independent confirmation and at times just the opposite.  TTM Hestons are not acuired at in person nor were Michael Johnsons but you change your tune & timeline to suite your purpose.   If I were you i'd be cautious what I wish for.

Permalink Reply by Liam Morrissey on June 5, 2012 at 12:41pm

I think it is a bit of a sweeping comment to just discredit GA completely. Similarly to say dirty water is a crook based on some pieces that in your opinion look questionable/asking how can he have all this, does not seem like enough evidence to me.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on June 5, 2012 at 12:48pm

Liam, have you asked seller dirty_water_ink how they are able to literally get thousands of in-person autographs?  Have you asked them how they seem to have an infinite inventory of the same autographs?  I asked them those same questions a long time ago and they never replied.   Maybe they will give you an answer.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on June 5, 2012 at 1:10pm

In all fairness to the points DB and Liam are making, I did jump the gun on "crook" comment.  And my sports knowledge really quickly erodes outisde of Packer autographs.  That being said, let me rephrase:  I would not recommend that any collector looking for Rodgers, Nelson, Driver or Jennings autographs even consider this seller.  The red flags are too obvious, and there are several sellers of absolutely authentic Packers memorabilia at decent prices with infinitely more solid authenticity.

But if the seller is unknowlingly peddling many forged items at a profit of hundreds or thousands of dollars, I really can't have much sympathy for any heat he gets.  Shame on him for not knowing his business. 

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on June 5, 2012 at 1:14pm

Richard, but he claims he gets all of his autographs in-person. 

ABOUT US

 

WE HAVE BEEN OBTAINING IN-PERSON AUTOGRAPHS OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS AT A VARIETY OF EVENTS NATIONWIDE. EACH ITEM WE SELL IS CERTIFIED TO BE 100% AUTHENTIC BY EBAY'S #1 LISTED AND APPROVED THIRD PARTY AUTHENTICATION COMPANY - GLOBAL AUTHENTICS (GAI). CUSTOMER SERVICE IS OUR #1 PRIORITY SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO AN ITEM YOU CAN SEND US AN EMAIL AND WE WILL RESPOND AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on June 5, 2012 at 1:17pm

When he was listing and selling his Derek Jeter autographs on bats, baseballs, jerseys and photographs, over a two-year period, his Jeter autographs never varied.  They all looked like they came off an assembly line. 

PSA and JSA never certed that style Jeter autograph and no other in-person Jeter autograph hound ever acquired that style Jeter autograph in person.

Permalink Reply by DB on June 5, 2012 at 1:19pm

That is how I look at it.

If a seller is not answering straight forward questions about where the items being sold came from then it is as good a reason to avoid regardless of who has certed.  The Richard Simon Schu45 is another good example and those were in the presence and yet there have been no satisfactory answers from my viewpoint..

In the unknowingly category we could perhaps add the greater majority of sellers on ebay

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