Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Blinky on November 19, 2014 at 12:36pm

I know, I was wrong.  My original idea was based on where the end points of lines of letters were in relation to where they began on the next part of the signature.  It wasn't until I enlarged the J's that I realized I missed something.  I've tried to note this correction next to a few of my previous comments but the new comments get posted far away from the original.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 19, 2014 at 12:44pm

I'm not saying you were wrong I'm just saying that from the image above there is no way anyone could tell the direction.  It can't be enlarged big enough to do that.

Permalink Reply by Mark Shull on November 19, 2014 at 12:49pm

Blinky, thanks for the side by sides. If you look at any of the Js from the books, to my eyes it looks like they match to the JW Whitten autograph, not the pick guard signed by Jerry Lee.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on November 19, 2014 at 1:16pm

My opinion of the Whitten “J” is based on its angle and shape, and not on where the lines intersect. The angle and shape give the impression that it was written clockwise.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 19, 2014 at 1:26pm

Ballroom,

That's not how you determine pen flow though.

Let me put things in perspective here, you are quite knowledgable in autographs and people respect your opinion but this is not like being a sports reporter and you say that the "Bronco's" will win 33-12 and when they lose it never gets brought up again.  You are now advising people to purchase these items by "stressing" your opinion when in my expert opinion think you are wrong.  I'm not the only one either.  I have tried to see what you are seeing but it always comes back to the same thing, these are signed by Whitten.  Now if and when you are proven wrong you will go about your everyday travels and there will be many people who believed in you that will have purchased worthless signed books.  Welcome to my world!  Are you ready to handle this kind of mistake knowing that you caused many people to lose hundreds of dollars each by you possibly making a mistake?

Food for thought.

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on November 19, 2014 at 2:51pm

You’re assuming that I haven’t purchased one of the books myself. Well, that isn’t the case.

“There is no question that Whitten signed them” seems more like an emphatic statement of fact than an opinion. My opinion could be considered the more conservative one in that it is in agreement with the representations of JLL and Judith, it doesn’t use a signature authenticated by PSA/DNA as an example of a Whitten secretarial, and doesn’t imply that JLL and Judith are being dishonest and potentially open to legal problems.

You’re assuming that Whitten signed the items that he brought in for JLL to sign and referred to them as being “known Whitten signatures.” You are then comparing them to the book signatures in order to make your determination that the books were signed by Whitten. Is that correct? Please show an example of a Whitten proxy signature that is consistent with the signature on the PSA/DNA pick guard.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 20, 2014 at 2:34am

Ballroom,

First of all please don't try to read my mind as I never gave it a moments thought if you bought a book or not.  It doesn't matter to me at all.

Second, you have made up your mind and I or no one else is going to change it so whats the point?  You have all the images I do and we don't agree.  There is no problem with agreeing to disagree.

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Permalink Reply by Blinky on November 19, 2014 at 12:14pm

I think I was wrong on the direction of the J signature.  Due to this I did remove one of my comments that went into detail about the forming of the letter J. I've posted three J's and will leave it at that.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on November 18, 2014 at 12:20pm

Yup.. thanks Blinky!

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on November 19, 2014 at 12:43pm

I’ve been following this thread with great interest.

Something caught my eye that I do not think has been mentioned. I went back and checked this entire thread, along with the previous thread that had many signature exemplars.

In the vast majority of VERIFIED authentic examples, the bottom loop of the J swoops up and over the “erry.”

Now compare to the books and the questioned pickguards. The bottom loop of the J NEVER swings up and over the “erry.” It ends approximately even with or below the baseline.

Then, you have the “Thanks” on the pickguards that is a close match to the “Thanks” written on the Whitten note.

Next, on the books you often have the L in Lee that looks like a 7. How often do we see that on verified authentic examples? Rarely, if ever.

Finally, you have multiple independent sources claiming that someone else signs for JLL at least some of the time.

How much of this can be explained away with “quirky signer” or “he was tired?” How many red flags do you need?

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 19, 2014 at 12:48pm

Finally someone came out and said it!  I have been waiting and waiting for someone to notice this, I'm tired of talking to deaf ears.  Thanks Steve for saying it!  I said earlier if you wish hard enough maybe they will be authentic and that's what some are trying to do.  

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 19, 2014 at 1:39pm

Steve

The blog site you are talking about makes statements then when they realize they are wrong delete them then post more BS then delete other things from long ago.  This is a very cowardly way to "bully" people into believing what they are saying with no consequences when its proven they were wrong.  

These are the same people that conspired to put me out of business by writing lies about me and others on ANL and now on their new site.  They will never work together because of the jealousy they have to a few of us experts.  The problem is when being an expert you have to have balls when you form opinions and they are too cowardly to put their "sack" on the table while people with large butcher knives are threatening to chop it off.  Using "power" correctly is an art and takes years to understand it and what it can do to others in hobby, government or a nation.  Some people try to force their attempt at power on others and that is not the way it's done.  "Power" has consequences and has to be answered to correctly.  Disregarding logic and believing in faith is not the way to authenticate autographs.  JLL is no saint that I have ever seen.  Who knows what he does in his private life?  There are so many things that have been shown on this site that truly sheds considerable doubt about these books and some TTM items.  Why is it when JLL was called out and he signed items and took a picture signing them that they "just happen" to look like all of the ones that most of us agree are real and NOTHING like the ones we question?  

Food for thought.

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