I was wondering if anyone with experience authenticating LBJ signatures can explain something for me:

LBJ is known to have signed with a triangle J and a dot under the B in his name as President. Does this mean that signatures dated/sourced to a post Nov 1963 timeframe that are missing the dot or have a rounded J are certain to be secretarials?

The reason I'm asking is an estate recently disposed of two LBJ artifacts supposedly signed by the President.

The first item was a copy of "The Professional: Lyndon B Johnson" by William S White. The book was accompanied by a letter from the DNC Chairman dated June 1964 stating the book was signed personally by the President.

I didn't bid on it, because it looked wrong... like a late 50s autopen or rubber stamp. There's severe skipping on the y upstroke of the loop which made me initially think stamp.

The other item was a photo lithograph, which looked legitimate at first, but later looked drawn. It was in a frame and the auction house refused to take a photo of the picture not in the frame, so I can't verify the presence/absence of the dotted B. Also, the edges look REALLY hard. Anyway, I won the second item on the condition that I can return it if inauthentic.

It would be great if I can know good or bad before the item ships, as it's in one of those cheap frames, and the vendor won't ship without the frame. Shipping is $78, which is pretty much entirely due to the glass of the $20-$35 photo frame.

According to the vendor, both signatures were deemed authentic by JSA, which made me curious about JSAs other LBJ authentications, and it seems they've authenticated at least a handful of secretarials.

The first photo should be the book and the other two should be of the litho.