Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minelli - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This! (Signed Book)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason H
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Well that's another crazy aspect to explore. Good job Matt! Have to look at that angle too now. I never considered autopen because of the variations in pen pressure but it's insane how close everything matches looking at it this way.. If this is an autopen, it could be a huge blow to this hobby going forward. But why Liza of all people when Hillary Duff still utilized a dinosaur? I have seen some questionable copies on certain items lately that have me a bit scared. I was trying to track dowñ whoever was selling the photo in this discussion but people wouldn't cooperate at first and when I had a lead, the listing was already long taken down. These are perfect matches though. No variations.. but I'm very suspicious that some funny business is starting to happen. Always have to keep our minds open and stay vigilant
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/bill-murray-fake-si...
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Yeah, I’m also getting the overlay to match almost exactly for the bottom loops of the L’s. I can try to post that. I’m wondering if this is some sort of autopen using hybrid templates or something? Sort of like how one of the Bob Dylan templates was a conglomerate of the others…or if some sort of autopen AI involved?
FWIW, I was reading on another forum that some of her fans think that an AI version of her voice was used for her audiobook. Apparently, she has partnered with an AI voice cloning company that helped in making her new song. Though she made it clear that they only helped on the music (Not the vocals), Some people suspect that they did clone her voice for the audiobook. Apparently, a picture was released of her in the recording studio to support that she actually recorded the audiobook. Interestingly, in the picture, she is signing an autograph on what appears to be possibly one of the tipped in pages for the book. I’ll try to find that photo and post it.
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This is just a screenshot, maybe somebody can grab the original from her social media.
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Bottom loops of the L in Liza appearing to lineup at same time Z’s start to overlap well…not exact but something weird going on
https://1drv.ms/v/c/572904022464e090/IQBDzHoUrLPMTYlkVcYkXODJAYu5Ik...
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I do not like this at all. I won't have time over the weekend but I think more of us should utilize editing software in this way and compare as many examples as we can. I can start again next week.
What's strange is, I went to a PSA event yesterday in schererville Indiana and they had a deal that felt too good to be true. Anything under $49 regular pricing was $15. I had 37 items authenticated just for the hell of it when all I wanted was to add Jane Curtin to my now complete original SNL cast vinyl previous authentication sticker and request a new LOA.. it felt like a money grab and I'm curious if they also know something.. trying to get as much money as they can now before things blow up?... Or are these deals a normal occurrence? I rarely bother with authentication service and have no clue but I felt like something was up with that too.. like why were they so cheap? Hopefully this is normal and I'm just overthinking but I drove over 500 miles yesterday to attend that event instead of going to a major convention waiting in line all day. I was actually going to make a post about it but was totally distracted today.
This definitely seems to be fishy.. soon, everything may require a witness sticker, photo, video, and a piece of hair for some DNA attached to every autograph..
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Yeah, you can overlay two photos from your library using the Shortcuts app on iPhone. The steps are a little tedious but once you get the photos in there, it’s pretty easy to use. I encourage everyone to try it and start with the two from Tobysautographs.
I honestly don’t know what to make of it. Something just feels off when looking at them, and taking into account the number signed, age/health, etc. Then looking at those two I reposted from tobysautographs, along with the overlays. It’s not exact, and I’m not saying we can gain anything from isolating parts of a letter that may look similar across different signatures. But multiple points seem to be lining up in a way that they shouldn’t, suggesting mechanical involvement? Or maybe like you said, she signed so many that there are just going to be similarities. I don’t know. I pulled two other random examples and did not get much to line up like in the ones I posted.Congrats btw on getting your SNL completed, that’s awesome.
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This is an older one from a European auction where the picture is available but attached to an auction long closed and deleted so no info.. it has a small tail on the z, and the a is a known style as well. This matches up with the style in her book. I am a bit exhausted and need a break so you guys be the judge...
I'm getting more confident that these books are in her hand but it's still not conclusive. But more research needed for Matt M.'s amazing catch at a possible advanced autopen machine being used. Or is it possible she signed so much that some aspects are exact from each other.. almost impossible in this way no?
Anyways, here is the older signature from the euro auction (not confirmed authentic but matches others in ways) compared to her book. The L's the angles, the placement.. I say her hand but we might have bigger problems now.
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Thank you for your great detective work on this Matt M..
Now you've got me leaning towards the opinion that these are going
to turn out to be bad.
Your theory of autopen with hybrid templates may be spot on.
Why can't these artists just legitimately sign, and stop being so lazy and sneaky?
I guess we'll see with Liza as more exemplars emerge.
JJ
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Glad to help…I still don’t know what to make of these either. I agree that the varying pressure, lack of dots, and lack of exact matches would all support them being by hand. If they are secretarial, they are pretty good compared to her known examples…and consistent, considering that the signer would have had to replicate her signature thousands of times. I still feel like there is possibly mechanical involvement but would need to compare more examples.
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Yes, I think more exemplars are in order. I will post mine when I get around to picking it up. JJ
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