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Mantle Difficulty

I've been a collector nearly 30 years. As a Police Officer, I incorporated my hobby in to my work, and studied Forensic Handwriting Analysis. I came across this Mantle, and it caught my eye. I noticed several key similarities, and only a few irregularities at glance. Upon comparison, and under magnification, I see no irregularities in the flow. I find no irregular impression points. Nor, do I see any dragging in the flow of the pen. I've had several Mantle collectors say it is a fake.

Needing more insight, I hired Richard Simon to offer his opinion. As well respected as Richard is on Yankee items, I trust his opinion. He deemed it good. A friend who works at the FBI Crime Lab with Forensic Handwriting, also viewed the signature, and agreed it is good.

That said, there should be little question as to the findings. Thoughts?

I will post photos of the ball, and my comparison exemplars from various years.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 26, 2017 at 6:14pm

Many of the TPA's have helped the FDE's destroy the hobby. They are used more to help dealers sell then they are to provide unbiased opinions to the collector. Examine Beckett's authenticating for PressPass as just the start. They fly in and put stickers on alot of their junk. Occasionally some of them are authentic but more coincidence then expertise. TPA's are the biggest frauds in the autograph hobby today and have been for years. They take in more money on bad autographs then most active forgery rings.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 26, 2017 at 6:19pm

What is your solution? How can more people enjoy the hobby and know they are getting what they pay for?

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 6:26pm

That's a great question, Matt.

Here at AML we both educate and expose.

It's unfortunate that the majority of the people (80% in my opinion) who purchase autographs, have zero knowledge of autographs.

They also think that Ebay filters out the forgeries, which, of course, they do not.

As a matter of fact, for those who do not have knowledge of autographs, Ebay is probably the most dangerous place to purchase autographs.

EBay at one time had a team in place to remove forgeries, but they disbanded that team because they were missing out on some serious cash.

If that team was still in place, the "Florida" forgeries and sellers of those-said forgeries, would have been eradicated years ago.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 26, 2017 at 6:29pm

There probably is no solution. Reliance on these places took to deep a root. Self study is the only way those in the hobby can protect themselves.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 6:35pm

Excellent point, Rick.

I don't know if there is a solution either.

The truth is, EBay is heavily-populated with delusional autograph collectors and impulse buyers and the sellers of forgeries know it and that's why they are successful.

Also, the "Forensic" people that we expose here, are either incompetent or complicit. There is no gray area there.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 26, 2017 at 2:19pm

Thank you for the insight. I've collected on and off for nearly 30 years. It wasn't until I got back in to the hobby that I learned about all of the forgeries, Operation Bullpen, Authentication Companies, etc...It's a whole new world to me.

I'm not a FDE, I'm a Police Officer. My areas of specialty are Narcotics, and Investigations. I collect graphs on the side, and do FDE when the situation arises in my profession. It is by far a job, and I don't claim to be an expert. Had that been the case, I would not have employed an excpert for his opinion, nor posted here.

Now, the difference between autograph "experts" and FDEs, is the fact that an FDE will study one specimen, and compare to a handful of exemplars involved in a case. Once the case is concluded, they move to another case, possibly never dealing with the previous signature case ever again. Autograph experts know the particular traits of a handful of signatures,, and compare hundreds if not thousands of exemplars to those signatures, because there is a mass quantity.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 2:35pm

Matt, I want to add I certainly thank you for your service as a Police Officer.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 26, 2017 at 2:37pm

It's my honor. You can Google my name and see my passion for public service. Also, add me on FB if you wish.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 26, 2017 at 2:55pm

Matt, I can't speak for everyone here, but I am fairly certain they will agree that Forensics in law enforcement is not what we are "passionate" against. It's that every single one of the so-called forensic "experts" pass forgery after forgery. It used to be that I believed they were just incompetent. Now I know better, it is deeper than that and it goes deep into our hobby. Just troll around ebay for awhile. It will make you sick how much money these sellers of known forgers are making off of poor saps that don't know any better. As Christopher has stated hundreds of times, does one really believe they can get a signed Dimaggio and Mantle photo for 70 bucks???

According to the pricing on their website, the cheapest authentication is 100 bucks. What is also strange, and very telling, is that you do not see this sticker on anything that is authentic.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 3:08pm

Terrier is correct.

I have yet to see one authentic Mantle, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays, Koufax, etc. autograph with a COA from Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators (Stephen Rocchi and John Goraczyk) that is actually authentic.

Here is the GFA COA.

Click your mouse on the below image to get a full view.