Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on December 15, 2014 at 1:21pm

Sam, that's fine if you don't do business with me but that as most know is a "play" on someone who used to blog on this site but no longer does when I said "the Epperson knows".

Bryan, I understand where your coming from too, I tried to describe what I wanted to say as I don't know how to draw lines on digital images but I will once again try to clear up my take on the award.

There is no way from digital images of these two types that anyone can make a concrete finding if the two plates on these awards are the same or not.  It has been shown that if you make a vertical line (Up and down) from one image to the other that the type does not line up.  Using these two images, that is correct.  The reason for that is they are not straight horizontally, (Left to right).  A better term is they are not squared up, neither one.  The one on the left goes downhill (left to right) and the one on the right goes up hill (left to right).  This being said; they would not line up vertically (top to bottom) as they are not straight (left to right).

The correct way to check this is to start with a straight horizontal (left to right) line and straighten the type, then after and only after you have straight aligned type then you draw your vertical line (top to bottom) and see how they line up.  So far NOTHING that has been shown as to the typed not lining up has ever been shown as the type is not straight to begin with.  I wish I knew how to do it but I don't.  If someone knows how then please help here.  

Bryan, I'm not suggesting anything from these two images as I can't because they are photographed in two completely different ways. 

on a side note (only for those that know) "when all else fails, just say there was a typo" boy that is really, really an old excuse.

Now back to the issue at hand; these drawings come with rock solid provenance including photos of the celebrity with many of these drawings, (and this celeb was VERY, VERY closes to MJ) they also have signed letters and emails (not signed) that confirm these drawings.  I have too agree that MV is not helping their case by not coming on here and answering the questions that should be answered.  This bothers me too.  If these drawings are proven not to be real then it will have been a VERY well planned scam using very well known people to orchestrate this and put this together.  I hope I am right but if I'm wrong I will help prosecute those who were in on the scam.  From all I know and everything I have seen I still believe the signed drawings are correct.  

There is A LOT going on behind the scenes as we speak to clear this up once and for all.  If I sound "hostile" it's because I take this very seriously and get tired about of the crap that cowards say about this on other blogs under fake names.  No good can come from fake name blogging.  It's ONLY done to deceive. 

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on December 15, 2014 at 3:47pm

I tried to make this as clear as I possibly could without drawing lines but any "licensed carpenter or handyman" would understand what "squaring" was.

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Permalink Reply by Bryan on December 15, 2014 at 8:25pm

Maybe all the letters would line up, and maybe they would all be the same distance apart if the photos were taken from the same angle. But there is absolutely no doubt that the number 2's are not even remotely close to the same, therefore the two awards are not the same award. Or at least not the same nameplate. That being said there is apparently two different awards, you would expect them to be identical wouldn't you? And that is not the case in those two photos. Either they were purposely made different or I think we all know the other possibility.

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Permalink Reply by AJ Jones on December 15, 2014 at 9:22pm

I don't see why the number 2 has yet to be expounded on.  We already get the point that the trophies photos could have very well be taken from very different angles. It seems like people are trying to pull their plot lines together to make this debacle seem as logical as possible. I remember replica MTV Awards being sold on eBay, i don't see why it would be impossible to fathom that these could very well be replica's as well. As for the drawings with the signatures,  I (me personally) still would'nt touch these signatures if a picture of a celebrity holding them had accompanied them, Especially if the TPA is as far as the provenance will go due to confidentiality reasons.....without actually seeing these being signed physically, the actual signatures themselves look unlikely (in my opinion).  If the TPA has the provenance and it can't be shared with anyone else, then future sales of this investment would be near impossible for the next owner. 

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 16, 2014 at 12:56am

This was the link shared from a previous discussion when an AMA award was made that MJ actually never won.  (Favorite Video Pop/Rock Billie Jean).  A blank was purportedly bought here:   http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/american-music-award-prop-loo...   And the award made from one of those blanks:

The award really wasn't even my focus in what I was bringing up to be honest, because I know you can make anything up these days--ANYTHING - or there actually is a 2nd award.  The point I was making was that two consignees-through the same seller, had the same "wonky" i's (or lack thereof of an i) and looked to be nearly identical but not quite.

There are two more items from "Michael" to Bob Jones from Mem Vault that also have no i and go directly into a c - with a different era J coming into play.   The front a "Platinum" record with some very nice graphics (you can also buy blanks on ebay for 69.00 that include a nice frame and the thick black matting--not saying for sure that was done - just that you can)

http://www.thememorabiliavault.com/michael-jackson-and-bob-jones-si...

 And then this note to "Bob"

http://www.thememorabiliavault.com/MICHAEL-JACKSON-SIGNED-AND-INSCR...

I have just never seen this type of i on anything prior to all of these.

wascher

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Permalink Reply by michelle on December 16, 2014 at 2:50am

I was wondering why it was hard to find anything about who the owners of M.V  are, even on their own site unless I am looking in the wrong place.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 16, 2014 at 3:16am

I have a first name of one person but that's it.  With that said though, I don't know many businesses that actually post a persons name.  The address listed is to "The UPS Store" (with a mailbox #)

-w

Permalink Reply by wascher on December 16, 2014 at 3:41am

Check this out.  Now this isn't the same one, so I'm still not saying the one above isn't good, but look at this page.  For $79.00 you can actually buy a plaque for the MJ Bad Album, already printed up and ready to hang.  http://www.goldrecordart.com/  (first row on the home page--4th one in).  I didn't see this earlier when I was writing... I only knew about blank ones... this blows me away.  Also 4th row they have a Thriller one.

If nothing comes of this and everything checks out, this is just something for people to see so that you understand - pretty much anything can be done up these days and made to look like some authentic plaque from whomever... not just MJ--anyone.  I even see a JLL in there!!! lol

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on December 16, 2014 at 6:54am

Wascher, You had to go and throw JLL into this discussion, didn't you. Isn't this one painful enough already? Ha!

Looking at that site and others like it, unscrupulous individuals could easily fake awards and gold records. I agree fully with AJ Boogie and Bryan about the questioned MJ awards being different with the "2" being the most obvious difference. 

Permalink Reply by Lizzie on December 21, 2014 at 4:10am

And this one sold through Gottahaveit in December 13?

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on December 17, 2014 at 10:41am

Wascher,

Do you agree that this drawing is correct?  It seems to have that same "i" you were talking about.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on December 17, 2014 at 12:06pm

Hi Roger,

I actually have this one saved somewhere on my computer and I saved it not too long ago (my computer has become overloaded with artwork lately so I don't know which folder I've stuck i--but I did save this one)... but I do know I classified it as "unknown".  I do this with every single "face" piece I see now that has come out after his death, because there are so many new ones that keep coming out.  As you know there are TONS of faces/drawings of heads that showed up (and continue to) since he died.... and it doesn't take much to do if your an artist.  I think I mentioned this in another discussion too, that unless I can see it was actually in or on something before he died or has proof of being documented before he died (not by someone selling it or consigning it), OR it has MJ's chicken scratchings/notes around it (and a lot of it) I would never say for sure its his.  Does it appear to be his style, absolutely, but so do a lot of them :)

A simple example - is the below pics.... (Lizzy had sent some of these to me when we were comparing notes on drawings when this discussion first started, she had 2 and I had 2 that she didn't have, and one has shown up since we actually first sent each-other these)

Will the real old man,  please stand up?

My son is coming home from the service **my army brat** in a few hours (haven't seen him in a yr), and I have massive "chit" to get done yet around here so I won't be on much, I will try to check in though if I can. 

-w

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