Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Charlotte Stanley on November 28, 2012 at 12:51pm

I know we are trying to stay to one topic. The problem here is The fraud has been going so long and we are starting to unravel more pieces. It is relevant that this is deeper than we even realize. If you are new to MJ's world, its hard to understand. Michael was talking about corruption and conspiracies when he was here, and lots of friends just thought he was delusional, but Im not so sure.

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Permalink Reply by BreakOfDawn on November 28, 2012 at 12:46pm

"I haven't asked, but it's fairly obvious to me that the consignors of these items to both auction houses were Tompkins and Bush."

Steve, so you are saying you think there are two jumpsuits both owned by Bush, one signed and one not signed.
He consigned one to Gotta Have It that sold to a collector for $16K.
He is consigning the other one, that is signed, to Julien's.

Just want to make sure I'm understanding your opinion.
Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Charlotte Stanley on November 28, 2012 at 12:54pm

Is this jumpsuit in the upcoming auction? I havnt looked at the whole catalog. It was sold at Juliens Auction in 2010 signed.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 28, 2012 at 1:30pm

Sandy,

Yes. Based on comparing images, I think that there are two jumpsuits. I think that whoever consigned the one to Gotta Have It consigned the signed one to Julien's that sold six months later. It makes sense that both would be in the same hands if multiples were made, because wardrobes would stay together unless MJ gave one to someone, kept the other or gave it to someone else, etc. I think the consignor was Bush, but I could be wrong. 

But you know MJ history. I don't.

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Permalink Reply by BreakOfDawn on November 28, 2012 at 12:56pm

" They have to have backups. And if Tompkins and Bush had two or more of each and wanted to sell them, it would make sense that they put one in Gotta Have It's auction and one in Julian's six months later."

Steve, Bush & Tompkins did not make these jumpsuits. They had not even met Michael at the time of their creation for the Victory Tour, so they would not have been responsible for making duplicates. Bill Whitten was Michael's costume designer prior to Bush & Tompkjns. Yet somehow how Bush has two?!
He shouldn't even have one, let alone two.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 28, 2012 at 1:05pm

Sandy,

Thank you. That's something you just made clear to me. 

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Permalink Reply by Face on November 28, 2012 at 1:00pm

Charlotte, the Jumpsuit was sold in October 2010 SIGNED @ Julien's Auction.

BUT it was sold a few months earlier in March 2010 @ Gotta Have R&R UNSIGNED...

So my point was that Michael came back in some divine vortex between March and October 2010 in order to sign this Jumpsuit so that it gets sold at Juliens auctions.

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Permalink Reply by BreakOfDawn on November 28, 2012 at 1:08pm

Something that I find REALLY strange is that almost all of the signatures are signed to ONLY Bush and not also Tompkins.
I know we mentioned this before briefly but it's worth repeating.
That is very unlikely for Michael to sign everything to Bush. Michael was a very fair person and was very aware of giving credit where due. Even with fans he would be concerned about being fair, sometimes asking us not to tell others if he spent time with us because he didn't want anyone's feeling to be hurt.
I don't find it plausible he would sign all of these outfits to JUST Bush. All the sketches in the auction of MJ in their outfits were done by Tompkins, yet they are all signed to Bush. Weird.
Also, Tompkins passed away in Dec 2011...how convenient. I wonder how his family feels that everything is signed to Bush now..,

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Permalink Reply by Charlotte Stanley on November 28, 2012 at 1:15pm

Another very relevant question. I agree.

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Permalink Reply by Justin on November 28, 2012 at 1:37pm

omg! that hasn't even crossed my mind - and obviously didn't cross Bush's either. not that he even gives two hoots. senile fool.

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Permalink Reply by Jadzzia Mj on November 28, 2012 at 2:40pm

it is true I did not think about that either ... Thanks Sandy

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Permalink Reply by Brett Kelly on November 28, 2012 at 1:22pm

All... The problem with focusing too much on the costume pieces is that we have no idea how many were actually made. Whatever the scenario is, it can be explained away. For example, MJ MIGHT have given Bush one of his orange jumpsuits from the Victory tour to use as an example for the creation of the white jumpsuit for his Bad tour... the jumpsuits were used for the live performance of "Working Day and Night." Not saying this is the case... just an example of how anything costume related can be explained away. We can even see in the current Julien's auction catalog that several of the costume pieces are one of 2, 3 or 4 made. There could be MANY jumpsuits out there from the victory tour. I have MJ costume items with "bulletproof" authentication and provenance. Strangely enough, there are other duplicates out there! The autograph authentication is the thing to focus on here. I question the authenticity of even some of the wardrobe pieces in this auction... but that can't be proven... autograph authentication can! If those signatures are fraudulent, then the WHOLE THING is.

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