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PSA and JSA forgeries? Have you seen any you feel they possibly made a mistake on?

I'm not sure about you guys but I've seen a few in my years of searching ebay.  What about you?  Have you ever seen an autograph that was authenticated by a major authenticator ( EXCLUDING GAI ) that you thought was in fact a forgery?

If you have, please post scans if you have them available.  I know when it comes to authentication it is hard to beat JSA or PSA but I have read stories about some errors made by the companies.  The infamous Sal Bando incident is one that comes to mind http://rant.sportslizard.com/2007/12/01/jsa-authenticator-busted-on...

There are other examples very similar where JSA and PSA were at a show where an athlete was signing and someone swapped the real ball they had signed with a forgery they did before the show and the authenticator gave it the stamp of approval.   The Pete Rose incident is another example of where JSA assumed because Pete Rose was signing autographs at the show they were authenticating at, that every person who put a Pete Rose autograph in front of them must have the real thing.  

Here is another link that shows where a forgery may have slipped through the cracks.  http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=10958

They ( PSA and JSA ) have authenticated printed signatures in books as authentic and have even authenticated a real signature of Kato Kaelin signature as being signed by Kate Hudson.  

I am new here and certainly not here to cause a fuss, I am just curious as to what you guys think the % of fakes that do slip through the PSA or JSA cracks.  I think we can all be wise enough to admit that forgeries do get through.  There is no way they can be 100% all of the time.  

I value their opinion but after looking at a Mantle that they authenticated ( It looks traced ) , I question just how good they truly are.  I had a Derrick Rose autograph that failed their authentication, but in fact...It was obtained in person BY ME at a Bulls vs Bobcats game.  

I saw a youtube test video where a guy forged a Bob Feller autograph on camera and sent it in to PSA and it come back slabbed.  I just wonder if they are all they claim to be

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Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on July 28, 2013 at 9:08pm

Yes, This card was pulled from Upper Deck and it clearly says it was authenticated by PSA.  Hell, they even included coupons for free slabbing in the packs of prominent cuts.  This is just one example of a PSA DNA failure

Permalink Reply by Innuendo on July 28, 2013 at 9:27pm
Interesting...does it have an item number of which to coincide with an index on PSA's website? I'm sure they have a catalog with all the items they passed on it. I don't know her sig at all, but I'd be interested to see if the item matches up on their website. I'm new to the sports collecting all together so walk me through me this. Is Upper Deck owned by PSA? Or are they just often affiliated? Because if PSA is just a company that authenticates for them when needed, then perhaps it was a mistake of some kind. If they aren't a single business, then perhaps there was a slip up and PSA didn't really deem it. I've seen an instance recently where someone posted a an item here that was "deemed real" by PAAS. When on fact, it was not only a fake, but the COA was forged (quite nicely as well) and fooled a few people until it was straightened out by someone at PAAS. Basically, I'd just want to ensure PSA did pass it as a fact before saying they did anything wrong.
Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on July 28, 2013 at 9:31pm

I'm not saying the autograph on the card is a fake.  I'm simply saying that the autograph on the card isn't Jane Seymour.  

Basically Upper Deck is a separate company that hired PSA to authenticate autographs for their cards.  There were a few of these cards in which PSA authenticated autographs that were just insane.  This is one example.  Another example would be a Clayton Moore ( Long Ranger ).  The card was actually signed by Carroll O'Conner.  It was an error but according to Upper Deck, it was an error made by PSA.   It is things like this that make me question what the hell is really going on with PSA

Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on July 28, 2013 at 9:32pm

Also you can rest assure that Upper Deck didn't forge any PSA authentication.  They are a billion dollar company and certainly wouldn't jeopardize that in order to pass off a Jane Seymour autograph.  =)

Permalink Reply by Innuendo on July 28, 2013 at 9:42pm
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I've always viewed myself of a bit of a one trick pony when it comes to collecting (Freddie Mercury is all I feel 100% confident with) so now that I've got a grandson into baseball and a few sons into certain movies stars and bands, I feel the best thing I can do is just try to soak up any available info I can on everything autograph collecting. I must admit, I can't tell you who Willie Mays really is, but with the help of some great fans and knowledgeable members of this site, I managed to get my grandson a ball signed by his hero without throwing all kinds of money out the window. So I appreciate the answers you gave. I suppose its not possible to get it right every time. I'm sure they've made mistakes. This does make for a very interesting topic. I'm interested to see what the other members have to say about it. Its all new knowledge to me, so I'm glad you posted it.
Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on July 28, 2013 at 9:44pm

Thanks for your input.  I look forward to see what others say as well.  I'm sure some will agree and some will argue.  I just don't think PSA or JSA are the GOD'S OF AUTHENTICATION =)

Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on July 29, 2013 at 6:00am

This one surprises me that both  PSA-DNA and Upper Deck  would have both have slipped up on this.  I have no idea but wonder if perhaps they are not as careful with Upper Deck cards as they might be if I submitted that.  I think most the most novice of collectors would see it is "Jean" not Jane.

Permalink Reply by JXE on July 29, 2013 at 7:38am

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is. Of course they make mistakes. No one could have a 100% track record. 

Whenever I look for a PSA or JSA item, I always go through the work of authenticating it myself. The certificate is just to help me with the resale value later. I mostly collect celebrities, and I find PSA to be much more accurate than JSA in that area, in my opinion. 

Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on July 29, 2013 at 7:42am

  I clearly state the point of the thread in the opening.  I am trying to determine how good they really are.  I am trying to gather a consensus from fellow collectors on how much faith they put in an item just because it has a sticker from PSA or JSA.  

You must understand the point of the post because you answered the question.  You said "Whenever I look for a PSA or JSA item, I always go through the work of authenticating it myself"  which obviously means you have more faith in your own opinion than you do of theirs.

That is all I am looking for.  Thanks for the input

Permalink Reply by JXE on July 29, 2013 at 11:59am

It looks to me like you didn't need to do much determining, as your posts and "evidence" shows you already have a firm opinion of "how good they really are".

I didn't say I have more faith in my own opinion than I do theirs. You twisted that to support your agenda.

Third party authenticators are bound to make mistakes here and there. I've seen clear mistakes before. And guess what I do? I just don't buy that item. But when I look for a new item you can bet I'm going to check for PSA items first because they already narrow down the options to a better grade of materials. 

It's rare that they make a mistake, and fixating on them does nothing to prove any kind of point. No reasonable person can think that any authenticator would be perfect.

Permalink Reply by Charles O'Brailey on July 29, 2013 at 12:40pm

You said " Whenever I look for a PSA or JSA item, I always go through the work of authenticating it myself "

Obviously you do have more faith in your own opinion since just seeing their sticker isn't enough to make you not do your own investigation in to the signature. 

At any rate, I respect your opinion....I really do.  I just don't agree that mistakes by them are rare.  I think they have a true success rate of about 90% on vintage sports autographs and about a 70% success rate on celebrity autographs.  That is my opinion.

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on July 29, 2013 at 12:43pm

Actually I think your 70% success rate on celebrities is probably close if not a little high. I think PSA and JSA do a super job on sports items but I also think they do a horrible job on entertainment and music items.

Just my opinion though.

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