Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 5:34am

I don't know if you are just very rude or something else. I came on here to share my experiences not get insulted. You obviously know a bit about Ray Charles but rudeness just devalues your opinions and makes a conversation with you very hard going and difficult. I've just shared some of my personal experiences, that's all. I've got no interest in trading insults or continuing a conversation with you.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 26, 2018 at 11:03am

I don't think Paul is lying. His looks much more polished than several Ray Charles autographs that I strongly believe are real, though, so I think it could be secretarial. Paul's was signed in 1962, 55+ years ago, and recollections can change over time, especially that many years.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 11:09am

It was in 1963 on his first UK tour. I don;'t remember all of them I must admit. I've got a number of Sammy Davis Jr autographs and I can't remember where I saw him at all. I don't even recall meeting him but I did, although I was never much of a fan. I only ever collected autographs face-to-face. I only recall one time when my book was passed back-stage and that was for a Jet Harris/Tony Meehan gig.  Along with a few special ones Ray was one to remember. I'd say meeting Gene Vincent and Jerry Lee Lewis and seeing them perform together was possibly next. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 26, 2018 at 11:19am

Sorry, Paul, I missed the year if you mentioned it. 

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Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 11:26am

Yep it was 1963. I started in 1962, the first ones I got were from the Temperance Seven with probably the highlight of 62 was meeting the Beatles and going back stage with them at the Plaza and McCartney inviting me to the soundcheck which i declined. Lol. They were virtually unknown in Birmingham then compared to just a few months later. Most of the autographs were then through 1963 with a handful going into 1964 but by then I'd left school. I was working in the center of Birmingham for Lyon's Tea Shops but didn't really have the time to get to venues as early as I could when I was at school. So my collecting days ended. 

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Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 11:30am

Here's what I looked like back then. I'm 3rd from the left on the 2nd row up. Top row on the right was Tony Iommi from Black Sabbath. I was in the same class as Tony and Ozzy Osbourne was in the year below us. This pic of me is from Iommi's autobiography. I remember seeing him playing the Shadow's "Apache" at school.  You'll have to click on the image to see the full size and Iommi.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 26, 2018 at 11:33am

That's from the 20th century?

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Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 11:39am

Yes from the days of black and white. lol. I wish we'd had phones back then and I'd have lots of pictures but the only one I have is me with Cliff Richard and there was also a picture of me taken with the Tornados on the Thank Your Lucky Stars TV show but I've got no copy of it. They took a picture of them with some fans and it appeared in the shows year book but they air-brushed me out, I was probably too scruffy and messy looking. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 26, 2018 at 11:52am

I went to a wedding some years back where the bride was 5 years older than the groom. The posted photos of their lives as babies forward.

All his pics were in color, but her first 5 years were in B&W.

Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 11:55am

I think my first 20 odd years was in black and white. 

Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on April 26, 2018 at 7:33am

The question I would ask Bob is why would Charles' trusted aide sign in a child-like way on his behalf? Presumably he knew how proud a man Charles was and how he wanted to be presented. I cannot see that there would have been a motive (financial or otherwise) for not writing in a fairly normal way, like the later secretarials we see regularly.

It is possible that the RR Auction item and my programme are pure forgeries but I think that is highly unlikely as:

a) The RR item has been signed by others attending the meal - the forger would have had to have been very resourceful to have searched out such a partly-signed menu for the purposes of forging Charles' signature.

b) My programme was bought at a flea market in Zurich from a totally non-specialist seller. The price he was charging did not suggest that he knew the significance of Charles autograph (if indeed there are any) or that it would have been worth his while to deface the cover of a collectable vintage programme with a child-like scrawl. Being so close to the RR example he would also have had to have been familiar with their site which I am 99.9% sure he was not.

We should also not forget that RR sold another Charles item some time ago. The original seller of that one had obtained it in person and sold it for charity. She also made a video explaining how she had obtained it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=570Cnyebmqs

Strangely, the video does not show the autograph but Steve included an image on page 3 of this thread.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Canning on April 26, 2018 at 7:56am

and that's where the argument falls down. On one hand he's saying his assistant did the autographs and he didn't do them cos he didn't want to look child like and then his assistant produces the exact same child like signature. 

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