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Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on February 19, 2013 at 6:39pm

Just to set the record straight -

Steve, Roger has very graciously offered his opinion on just a handful of rock signatures we've sent his way. We have thanked him (in various ways!) and moved on. We have also accepted his verbal opinion on a piece or two which he condemned, contrary to our policy of accepting only written statements explaining why a piece might be called into question. Roger is not in any way retained by us on a regular basis, paid or otherwise.

Furthermore, before you claim that the late James Lowe, a dear friend of mine, vetted all of Christie's autograph auctions, perhaps you should check with Chris Coover at that house. I believe you will find that you are way off base.

I maintain that the only reasons auction houses use third party authenticators for all of their material is because:

a.) They believe that they are unqualified to vet the material themselves, in-house (see the content of this thread), and/or;

b.) They have an "inside arrangement" with those who do their authentications, ie: discounted consignment rates, or perhaps special post-auction "deals" in exchange for advertising their experts, and/or;

c.) The entire process is a means to convince the buyer into believing that the house has exercised due diligence - through the use of external experts.

Christie's does not sell used tractors nor do they sell collectible Zippo lighters. Why? They don't have the in-house expertise to vet that type of material, and to use "outsiders" to check their goods would make them look inept, unqualified, and somewhat legally insulated from what they sell.

Why shouldn't I sell art glass, vintage sneakers, and antique lunch boxes? Because I know nothing about them, just as baseball autograph authenticators who have now journeyed very far afield know nothing about Sojourner Truth, Bedrich Smetana, watermarks, laid paper, iron gall ink...or anything else...beyond baseball autographs.

Of course, this is no reflection upon my friends in the trade who voluntarily donate their time to keep the hobby clean - it's those who manipulate the market, or try to gull consumers who gall me.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on February 22, 2013 at 4:27pm

I'm not familiar with Howe's signature but growing up in Boston I am very familiar with Orr, and I noticed these also. I agree that they are not authentic.

Permalink Reply by Steve on February 22, 2013 at 5:47pm

I'm very familiar with both Howe and Orr and I can assure you that neither are good. Gordie is spot on with every signature. His G in Gordie is very specific on the lower portion and never is fully rounded. Mr. Sipe cannot possibly look at a legitimate Gordie Howe exemplar and see the same structure as those he has authenticated.

Permalink Reply by Steve on March 4, 2013 at 7:35pm

Now there seems to be a run on fake Bart Starr items authenticated by GA (Mr. Sipe). Again, the signatures are not even close.

Permalink Reply by Peter Lougheed on March 19, 2013 at 7:51pm

Sorry to reply so late on this. I agree with you 100% Steve. Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr are always careful with their autographs, almost every signature is clear and tight even when signing for a crowd, and I have never seen anything signed by either of them looking like this garbage.

Permalink Reply by Steve on March 19, 2013 at 8:21pm

Peter, Gordie once told me that although he sometimes gets treated like King Lear, he always makes sure he gives his nicest signature to people who want it.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 21, 2013 at 2:19pm

The usual suspects in the forgery industry published a ripoff report against RR based on the opening of this discussion. This is a reminder why it's so important to make sure you're accurate when you state things here. Those people are nasty, dishonest and desperate and will stop at nothing to hurt the legitimate autograph hobby.

Permalink Reply by kevin conway on February 22, 2013 at 1:43pm

Re: "nasty, dishonest and desperate and will stop at nothing to hurt the legitimate autograph hobby."

Wow! Does this sound all Too Familiar !! (:

Permalink Reply by kevin conway on February 22, 2013 at 1:57pm

RR Auction has one of the best resources for comparing authentic exemplars. But there is always someone that will come along and pick 10 out of 10,000 items and use it against them. It is the old adage people are Ten Times more likely to criticize then compliment, it is just human nature. We always seem to be stimulated by the next opportunity for drama or to be judgmental. I just think it is absurd to think , particularly in the autograph business, that every reputable dealer MUST be 100% accurate, can Never make a mistake. Guess what? Never going happen. Ever.

So, what options do we have? Well I have followed dealers and auction houses for the past 25 years that have a 20%, 50%, 70% and 90% accuracy level. Obviously I stay away from the 20 and 50% options and go with the 90% (BTW, same deal for authentication services)... But if I am a dealer that offers the public a great FREE benefit of using my database of autograph images but a certain "element" starts using that against me, guess what is going to happen??

Just my 2 cent rant...

Permalink Reply by Xwiesy on February 22, 2013 at 2:00pm