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The Doors and Jim Morrison autographs--would appreciate opinions on authenticity

I respect a lot of what I've read on this site.  So much so that I'd love your opinions on this Morrison/Doors supposed authentic auto.

The Doors Autograph
The Doors Autograph - 2
The Doors Autograph - 3
The Doors Autograph - 4
The Doors Autograph - 5

American rock band The Doors, 4 1/2" X 4 1/2" inches, 1970, Hand signed by American rock band The Doors, Set of hand signed autographs, signed by all original members of American band "The Doors". These signatures are like gold dust nowadays. To find a set like these is next to impossible. These were signed in England in 1970. Signed on paper. The paper is showing signs of age, with some foxing, and one signature is on the back with three on the front. Still a very rare set to get your hands on. The foxing looks worse in my photographs than when you have it in your hand. All the autographs are still very clear. The Doors were an American rock band formed in 1965 in Los Angeles, with Jim Morrison, Ray Manzarek, Robby Krieger and John Densmore. size 4 1/2" X 4 1/2" inches

Many thanks,

Chris

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 24, 2017 at 9:33pm

No, I think you missed my point. How is that spot of ink in such good condition if signed when the page was new? Look at the edge wear and compare that spot of ink with the rest of that signature. Why should that ink be strongest at the edge? It seems counterintuitive. In other words, why is the paper worn and not the ink on top?

Permalink Reply by Teresa Stone on August 24, 2017 at 9:52pm

The ink dot went down in to the crease of the autograph book,..(the part of the page that "never sees the light of day"...do you see what Im saying. But I see what you are saying also.

Permalink Reply by Teresa Stone on August 24, 2017 at 10:17pm

In other words, the Autograph was probably opened and looked at many times throughout the years, and exposed, but the ink in the crease was "preserved"....until the page was pulled out of the book many years later.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 24, 2017 at 9:56pm

One might suggest that was the "inside" edge and thus accounts for the end on that signature to be strongest (protected, but it also might seem odd to have the strongest part written in what was then an obscured section of the page in question).) Then one must ask when this page parted ways with the rest of the album. The condition is off in appearance to me. Some of the best eyes here have already opined on the signature, so I am looking at other things.

Permalink Reply by Teresa Stone on August 24, 2017 at 10:26pm

Let me know what you find,...There really is a lot more to look for on this autograph page, Thanks Eric.

Permalink Reply by JackGotLucky on August 25, 2017 at 3:41am

There is no need to take another look at speed, flow, ink/paper age, none of that, as all of these things are irrelevant when the autographs in themselves do not even remotely resemble or compare to authentic Doors exemplars. These sigs are a joke plain and simple. Just to be clear, do you really believe these are authentic? 

Permalink Reply by Christopher C Jones on August 25, 2017 at 9:29am

Hello, all.  I originally posted this item because of the tremendous amount of respect I have for the collective knowledge you all have.  I'm an amateur collector and have about 30 autos in my collection....some obtained in person.

That said, I posted this item because it was up for sale at auction (I get alerts for Doors items) and found this intriguing.  There have been some Jim Morrison autos on this forum that I thought were no way legit but turned out to be examples that just looked different (Ballroomdays67 and JackGot Lucky were big contributors.......thanks guys) but turned out to be real.  I was hoping that was the case with this one.

Since the belief is that this is a forgery I'm posting the link here so you all can watch and laugh at what the bids climb to in the next couple days.  Auction site:  https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/55406712_the-doors-autograph

Thanks again to all for the opinions and insight you've provided.  And hey, there's nothing wrong with a good debate either.  I've enjoyed it.

Cheers,

Chris

Permalink Reply by Teresa Stone on August 25, 2017 at 6:20pm

This one,...Yes, I still think its Authentic Jack. The age of the Paper, the Manzarek, and the J on Morrison really are convincing. Just my opinion.

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 25, 2017 at 6:46pm

The things we discussed defy explanation IMO.

Permalink Reply by JackGotLucky on August 25, 2017 at 7:14pm

I understand that however many signatures any given person signs, there are the occasional few that don't resemble their typical signature that they are know for, whether it be that it was rushed, they were drunk, signing on an odd surface, whatever the case may be. But, those few "unusual" sigs still have hidden characteristics hidden in them that are typical to their "known" exemplars. The forgeries in this discussion show none of them. The following authentic Jim sig is one of the most unusual examples I've seen and he was obviously drunk or on something when he signed it. It looks shaky and is a mess, but yet it still has the "feel" of his real ones.Please show us one, just one single exemplar that the forgery you think is real even remotely compares to. I would love to see it.

The link that Christopher provided to "Live Auctioneers" has a pre auction estimate on your item at $1,200.- to $1,500.-. LOL. Not including contracts, I've only seen 9 authentic items signed by all four Doors that would fetch between $10k and $15k +. That should tell you something...

Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on August 25, 2017 at 7:20pm

+1. This is why I tried to go with paper and other logic - these are not my strong suit as you all know, but the signatures are just not there. 

The thing with the ink and paper I mentioned still needs to be explained as far as I can see - it is a problem, apart from the obvious. 

The whole things looks overcooked. 

Permalink Reply by sling on August 25, 2017 at 8:37pm

I have read that most people follow a similar pattern of signature when drunk- I believe most drunk signatures are larger....

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