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Thoughts on this George Washington Signature

Hello,

Looking for thoughts on this George Washington signature. Per the description it looks like someone has already been denied from the third party authentication like JSA, PSA, however the signature does look fluid and spot on. Main concern is why cut the autograph and not just keep the document ? What do people think of the signature ?

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Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 23, 2022 at 12:46pm

Also wanted to add the COA is from Heroes and Legends which I went back and checked the archived comments and seem like a scam. Or did they just authenticate anything and everything for money ?

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Permalink Reply by Eddy on February 23, 2022 at 12:48pm

Ty - Stay away from this. Heroes and Legends is a total scam business. I would wager that at any given time there is nothing authentic amongst their offerings. They do not authenticate autographs. They create autographs.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on February 23, 2022 at 12:52pm

The most obvious fake from this period I have ever seen. Heroes and Legends are neither. Steer well clear. Does that resemble something 240 years old? The ink? Condition/age?

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Permalink Reply by Nick Dimeo on February 23, 2022 at 1:03pm

Yep, another vote to steer far away!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 23, 2022 at 1:09pm

It definitely doesn't look old and like I said why cut the signature out, however I guess that brings me to my point. There are some really good forgeries out there. In this signature it looks fluid with some compromising around the G and the hilt on the H along with W being off a little. I guess the part that hits home is how fluid it is. Most of the time you can tell if it's fake by fluidity of the signature. I am learning as I go, however it's hard and rewarding to get it right.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on February 23, 2022 at 1:16pm

This is a dead obvious forgery from a well tainted source. You are looking at letters - the whole thing presents ridiculously and should be eliminated in a few seconds - if that. There are many fluid forgeries out there treated to appear properly, This is not one of them.

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Permalink Reply by Eddy on February 23, 2022 at 1:24pm

Ty - I agree with you. It can be both hard and rewarding to attempt authentication (with a special emphasis on "rewarding"). It's helpful to develop a little network of collectors and dealers you come to respect to assist you. As you mention, there are also folks here who genuinely want to help others. Kind of like giving back in the hobby community for what they themselves have received. Most do so in a kind, patient and respectful way.

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Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 23, 2022 at 1:12pm

Also wanted to add one more thing. That is this place has taught me a ton over the last few years and wanted to say thanks ! I was a lurker for a long time

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Permalink Reply by Nick Dimeo on February 23, 2022 at 1:15pm

When in doubt you can always put things in the search bar of this site. If you put in Heroes and Legends there are numerous posts that really show you how bad they are.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on February 23, 2022 at 1:18pm

+1 Folks don't utilize as much as they should...

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 23, 2022 at 2:03pm

As you've heard here, Heroes and Legends, AKA Myron Ross, is a major seller of "questionable" autographs. We kicked him out of Autograph Collector magazine in 2004, right after we took over as publishers. The UACC kicked them out of their registered dealers program the next year. Sadly today there are a number of major forgery sellers in the UACC RD, unfortunately, using the good dealers as cover.

The Washington looks like a clear forgery to me, with no ageing either.

Regarding it being a cut: many, if not most, 18th-early 20th century rare American autographs are cuts. Most autograph collectors back then just cared about the autograph. They'd cut the autograph out and discard the document. Not only is that a crying shame, it can make it much harder to detect great forgeries. The one in the OP is anything but a great forgery.