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What is with the second Dr. Gordon Meet The Beatles LP at Heritage tomorow?

Yesterday I started a thread in the Town Square category which was just meant to deal with the general issue of liability with respect to letters of authenticity. I used an example from tomorrow's Heritage auction - a signed "Meet The Beatles" (MTB) album.

Having dug a bit deeper, I realise that this album has been auctioned a couple of times recently and has been discussed on AML as well. I think it is definitely worth looking at it again.

Here is the item link:

http://entertainment.ha.com/itm/entertainment-and-music/beatles-sig...

As you can see, the album has a 1995 Frank Caiazzo letter of authenticity and is offered with an estimate of "$15k and up".

This album was sold by the doctor's family for around $63k in May 2011 and re-sold at RR Auctions for about $120k in March 2014. RR stated that the album was accompanied by full letters of authenticity from PSA/DNA, Roger Epperson/REAL, and Tracks. No mention of Frank's 1995 - why?.

The album was discussed on AML when the 2011 sale took place ("Unknown Band-Signed "Meet the Beatles" Album Surfaces in Antiques Auction, Sells for $63,250", posted 6 June 2011). The images in that thread look a whole lot dirtier than the Heritage images - presumably it has been to the restorers for a wash and brush-up.

Here is the AML link:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/profiles/blogs/unknown-bandsigned...

Quite why the album is being offered yet again with an estimate of "$15k up" and with no mention of the letters of authenticity included in RR's item description is anyone's guess. It may be my eyes, but the image in Frank's 1995 letter also appears to be the "cleaned up" version. Very strange!

Dr. Gordon apparently had two MTB Albums signed. One was inscribed to him and the other (the album being sold tomorrow) was not. In the 2011 AML discussion people found it odd that the uninscribed album had only surfaced several years after the inscribed one had been sold. With the new Heritage information that the uninscribed one had been authenticated by Frank in 1995 this now seems even odder. It may be that the family had it authenticated in 1995 but why if it was not being sold at the time? They knew where it came from.

As a side issue, also discussed in 2011, it also seems odd that the doctor didn't get the second MTB inscribed to his son and why George wouldn't have mentioned the doctor's treatment, as he did on another example signed for the doctor.

By the way. the inscribed Dr. Gordon album appears to have sold at Case Antiques for around $75k later in 2011 (after the June AML post). After that it appears to have disappeared into a collection. I would far rather have had that one as there is an actual link to the provenance story.

Phew! Sorry if all that was a bit confusing. I have no vested interest or grudges against any particular auction house or authenticator by the way.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on April 19, 2015 at 11:25pm

Agree Martin.pug.

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Permalink Reply by Trazom1 on April 20, 2015 at 5:41am

I doubt there were serious qualms about the provenance. This is no less than a spectacular "near mint 9" fully signed Meet the Beatles attested to with a 1995-dated LOA from Frank Caiazzo. I don't think any of us have any doubt as to the authenticity of this signatures on this cover with razor-sharp corners. Really...what's not to like?

It's not that $47K is insignificant, but I think most collectors would agree that the purchaser did extremely well! I wish I got it!

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Juice on April 20, 2015 at 12:35pm

A very nice Please Please Me from this auction also went rather low -- $19.000 plus 25%

A lot of people seem to be selling their rare pieces lately so perhaps there is a lot to choose from?

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Permalink Reply by Trazom1 on April 20, 2015 at 2:13pm

I absolutely agree, Bruce. That was a terrific signed PPM for a very attractive price.

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on April 21, 2015 at 5:53am

I know I sound like a plain vanilla pain in the posterior but the letter of provenance on the PPM was a bit odd, as I already mentioned in another thread. Very long and almost unbelievably detailed. A brief provenance letter together with a copy of the original newspaper article written by the Journalist concerned would have had more power for me than the three page written statement included with the lot - particularly as it read like a sales pitch in places. Also "only" a Heritage COA.

Getting back to the MTB for $47.5k, I would say the main thing "not to like" was the fact that Frank's COA did not tally with the statements of Dr. G's family when they sold their albums in 2011. Either Frank or Case Antiques must have been mistaken in what they wrote. As CJS says, $47.5k is not an insignificant amount - for what is essentially a piece of card with four signatures on it. For me the provenance has to stack up 100% for that kind of cash.

Apologies once again for being a big time Mr. Grumpy.

I haven't looked at all the Heritage results but I did look at the Beatles and Monroe results. On the whole I would say the prices achieved were on the low side. Maybe there was too much focus on the single-owner “Gone With The Wind” material. I don't think any Beatles items were "featured items" or made it to the auction video. When you consider that a different MTB sold at RR for $120k almost exactly one year earlier it seems odd that Heritage didn't push their copy more - as well as the PPM of course. The estimates may also have sent the wrong signals. “Come and get me” starting bids can work well at times but estimating the MTB at $15k up must have sent the wrong signals. If I had been the previous owner of these items I would not be best pleased – even more grumpy than I normally am!!!

Amazing result for a John Wayne eye-patch though ($25k inc. BP)! That is one where you certainly need a lot of faith in provenance!!!

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Permalink Reply by Paul on April 24, 2015 at 10:44pm

Caiazzo should have bought it and then he would have 2 to sell at 125 thousand, now that would be flipping.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 24, 2015 at 12:02pm

The Please Please Me you're talking about sold in April 2014 at Heritage for $40,825. It brought $23,750 with the buyer's premium this time. Same long letter of provenance.

Here's the image from 2015:

Here's the image from 2014:

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Permalink Reply by Paul on April 24, 2015 at 1:07pm

There were a couple of beatles albums that didn't sell at tracks last year in auction, so the market may be down. The Docs album should have made a killing.

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Permalink Reply by Bruce Juice on April 24, 2015 at 1:44pm

I agree -- for perhaps a rare moment in time, Beatles LPs have come down a bit from their record highs of a year or two ago. Could be a time to buy as we know they are only a finite number of these around and I can almost guaranty they will be up in the next 5-10 years. Maybe more people were motivated to sell when hearing of the record prices for that Sgt. Peppers and Meet the Beatles that sold about a year or two ago?

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Permalink Reply by Paul on April 24, 2015 at 2:34pm

That's why I thought we should put together a beatles American catalog to start with because there's not many around.
I still wonder why the other two albums of the docs didn't have caiazzo coas if one was issued in 95 why not 3. I'd like to know if the doc had 3 copies and Louise had one.

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Permalink Reply by Trazom1 on April 24, 2015 at 2:55pm

Paul, Bruce, and Steve: Yes, I agree with you. The market has softened. I think it's perhaps more a reflection of the overall economy than related to any recent increased availability of autographed material (because I don't think, in fact, there's been a glut of quality Beatles autographs).

I've seen the same phenomenon recently in other areas of collectibles, including rare American coins and early American silver, to name two specifically. I collect in a wide variety of areas and have seen dropping prices over the last year or so.

I agree that this may be a good time to buy. I think prices will eventually rebound. There is a limited supply of nice material. The Beatles will remain popular!