Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 6, 2010 at 1:10pm

If you're confident it's a forgery and that you're getting the runaround, I think you should file reports with the Las Vegas Police Department, the FBI, complain to the Better Business Bureau and their landlord, Caesar's Palace. Don't let them get a way with it! Oh...and put the autographs and rejection letter from JSA online here so we all can see.

Does their COA really say "Certified Graphoanalyst"??? A graphoanalyst is what's commonly called a graphologist: someone who analyzes handwriting to detect personality traits. They don't authenticate handwriting. Please publish her list--I'm dying to see it.

Comment by Thomas Gubitosi on September 6, 2010 at 3:22pm

I'm relentless. They will not get away with anything. Already contacted the BBB. Did not know if the authorities would have an interest but will try. Did not think to call Landlord but that sounds like an interesting idea. With your permission I would like to post a picture of the piece, the JSA report and a copy of her COA on your site.

Comment by Thomas Gubitosi on September 6, 2010 at 3:30pm

Steve, Sounds like the verbage on her COA prevents anyone from meeting her conditions for a refund. It is like saying you need a licensed plumber to certify the electrical work done on a job. Is it not?

Comment by Thomas Gubitosi on September 6, 2010 at 4:04pm

Posted pictures of the piece, her COA and JSA's letter. If they are not readable and anyone is interested E-Mail me at Gubi38@Aol.com and I will send them directly to you. Thanks

Comment by scott on September 6, 2010 at 4:10pm

I have noticed that a lot of autograph dealers try to hand pick their own authenticator. It seems like a conflict of interest. It seems like the Better Business Bureau would pick up on this when you file a complaint. Once the dealer gets your money it is very hard to get any money back. They sure do not act like the autographs have any real value.

Comment by john reznikoff on September 12, 2010 at 7:04am

I think you mean "graphologist" . If you look up graphology in wikipedia you will see that these individuals are often incorrectly compared to forensic document examiners. A graphologist is one who looks at handwriting to determine personality traits.. This would be good if you wanted to know about the much written about topic of the rat packs personality as Steve says. Of course if the signatures are fake you would get a fake read. Graphology is often disputed in the psych community. Then of course there is the subject of forensic document examiners. There are world class people here especially if you want to do a thorough examination of say the Joan be net Ramsey note where there is no multi year reference for comparison. Having been involved in many court cases myself as an expert I can tell you categorically that a legitimate autograph dealer or authenticator with 20 years experience or more should easily trump any forensic expert. Everybody should google the Kumo tire case, a landmark court decision which held that the guy on the assembly line in a tire factory who inspects defects, is arguably more qualified than a hired expert with scientific training simply because of his experience. In some ways the inverse of this is true too. I have prevailed every time in court when testifying against forensic experts, even the Head of the State Crime Lab, and when dealing with non-personalities handwriting, simply because I have demonstrated experience and presented testimony in a way laymen can understand. Go to my website Universityarchives.com and click expert witness for more info on this.

On the other hand, if Antiquities terms of sale listed these graphoanalysts in there terms of sale and you signed off on this, you may have an uphill battle. You would have to prove that collusion existed between the seller and the graph-whatevers and that the terms were designed to defraud. Won't be easy! I am writing this on an iPad which blocks off text in the entry box so please excuse typos and other mistakes

Comment by john reznikoff on September 12, 2010 at 7:09am

PS I meant to say that the legit dealer/authenticator should easily trump the forensic guy in cases dealing with autographs of famous people. In cases of questioned documents of non personalities or where ink dating or other scientific criteria come into play, I could name dozens of forensic guys that would massacre any autograph guy....most of the time but not all the time!

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