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Learning From This (Beatles Forgeries)

Hi everyone,

So the other day, I posted this set of Beatles autographs on eBay. It got a decent amount of views and watchers immediately. Then I received a message from someone stating that this was a copy of an available example from the back of a Parlophone card. I was shocked.

When I had first seen the set available, I asked the seller to ensure it was hand signed. He told me it was certainly live ink. So, I sent a photo over to Roger Epperson for a quick opinion. He replied saying it looked authentic. So I pulled the trigger. When I got it and inspected it, it was definitely some kind of live ink. There are even indentations on the back of the paper. I was convinced that, although there were some weird issues in the ink (I explained it away as the pen that was used), that it was legit.

I’m currently going through some financial struggles with work due to Covid so, as excited as I was to own this piece, I decided to list it on eBay. As soon as I saw the Parlophone card, I took down the auction. I had a few discussions with some excellent people from a Facebook group called Top Beatles Collectors. Someone had contacted Roger and told him about the situation since I did include his quick opinion email in my listing. I had emailed Roger inquiring about the cost to fully authenticate the item last month but never heard a response. We think it’s possible he may be confusing my first message to him with another more recent message from someone else, but apparently he told the person from the Facebook group that he never said it looked good and that it wasn’t his quick opinion/not a letter of authenticity. The first part was easily proven otherwise by my full email transaction with him plus my PayPal statement with matching transaction IDs. I’m not putting Roger on blast at all as I think he’s a professional with a great reputation but I must admit this confusion has hurt me personally and has affected my willingness to send stuff to him in the future. But my reason for posting this really has nothing to do with Roger. It’s the reminder that a quick opinion is not a letter of authenticity. He probably did a quick glance at the signatures and they do match up to mid 1963 signatures (because they are) so he probably gave the quick a-okay like I paid him to do.

But even further, I’m starting this is to discuss the type of forgery that this seems to be. The signatures on this page are certainly written with a pen. They don’t appear traced as they seem to be written with speed and some kind of flow. They aren’t drawn, so to speak. It’s possible these are machine signed. Hypothetically, that means if a forger gathered up four different sets of the four individual autographs and placed each of them onto one new surface, you’d have what appears to be a new authentic piece signed by all four Beatles. I hope I’m making myself clear here. I think this is a clever forgery but I think it could get much more maniacal and be even more tricky to tell through our screens.

So please, remember that a quick opinion isn’t the end all be all before purchasing a piece. Always look for full in person analysis and authentication. And be aware that people are always looking for new ways to scam you. Thanks for reading everyone. Happy collecting!

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Permalink Reply by Luke Iovenitti on February 12, 2021 at 7:55pm

Appreciated. I think it’s a good reminder for everyone to always do more research before purchasing. And when you think you’ve done enough, do some more and show it to other people. Hopefully a story like this will remind people not to be as impulsive as I was.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on February 12, 2021 at 8:06pm

+1 A very good post.

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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on February 13, 2021 at 4:33am

I have to congratulate you Luke for having the balls (excuse my French) to share your story and for being so articulate.

I agree 100% that research is crucial but sometimes time is of the essence, there is too little information publicly available, or you don't want to post it on a forum for fear of others sneaking in to take it from under your nose.

If these autographs got a "quick opinion" thumbs up, the seller confirmed that they are in "live ink" and images of the autographs from which they are copied from are not readily available on the internet, I don't think you could really have done a lot more bar posting them on here before buying. As far as I know, you couldn't have got proper authentication anyway without actually sending the piece to an authenticator.

I would definitely try to reach a solution with the seller, at least starting off in a very friendly tone.

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Permalink Reply by Luke Iovenitti on February 13, 2021 at 8:10am

I agree and the fact that I felt like I needed to make a decision quickly was really the only reason I put so much faith in the quick opinion. I’m getting in touch with them and hopefully we can get to some kind of resolution. Thank you!

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Permalink Reply by Jim McFiver on February 13, 2021 at 5:39pm

Well, Eva, I'm not so sure I buy that approach.

In this day and age of countless Beatles frauds and scams, it's a novice collector who falls prey to things like "...time is of the essence, there is too little information publicly available, or for fear of others sneaking in to take it from under your nose."

Beatles signatures are our blue chips of collecting - and if anyone is under a time gun, thinks they can get them for a song, or is paranoid, they shouldn't be considering them.

I owned a music store for 20 years, dealt with collectables throughout and not once did I ever feel the need to bypass common sense for a good or quick deal

Today's buyer has little choice: they must be meticulous if they want to acquire a genuine Beatles artifact.

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Permalink Reply by Pete D Moore on February 14, 2021 at 2:59am

Thankyou servi !! I 100 percent agree with you . I had a bad experience with roger epperson a few years ago . I sent my michael jackson signed dangerous lp in gold to him for a so called quick opinion and sent a reply saying this does not look authentic to me ???? Believe me ive done my research on michael jackson , i even bought this months before his death from a good source in l.a. and i no doubt think its 100 percent authentic ! Why i sent to him god only knows . He may have some knowledge of music but no way can be an expert in everything .def not mj and certainly not the beatles!!! My gut instinct tells me that this wasnt a mix up with these ones !! If you cant tell someone why you think its not authentic quickly then to me you may as well have flip a coin !! Will never use him as hes not reliable in my opinion but some may disagree. Im so sorry you got misled on this . Tracks uk are the best for beatles autographs !!! Absolute professionals and great to deal with !!!

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Permalink Reply by Joe Macnab on February 16, 2021 at 7:49am

I suppose this is the problem with Beatles' autographs that have been handed around a bit. The most common forgeries tend to be pieces of paper with all 4 signatures on it.....because the person who forged it can ask a lot more money from it. I've always been quite weary and avoided "sets" of Beatles signatures for this very same reason.

Don't get me wrong...I would love to have a full set (I have them all individually) but there are very few out on the market there that are truly authentic. I wouldn't even consider a set unless the person who sold it to me is the one who obtained it originally and that could be rather difficult to prove unless I knew them personally.

The signatures you bought look quite genuine to me but I would have been a little bit suspicious that while the paper has taken a beating over the years...the signatures haven't. The signatures probably should have been more faded like the paper. But I guess hindsight is 20/20. The Tracks website has some full sets available....expensive but at least they have the best reputation in the business for authentication.

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Permalink Reply by Luke Iovenitti on February 16, 2021 at 8:15am

Agreed! The reason they look authentic are because they are. They’re from this Parlophone card. The forger somehow managed to replicate the handwritten nature of it as well. Hindsight is definitely 20/20 as looking back on it there are a few things that should’ve turned me off from the start.