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Authenticity is Everything
Secretarial Autographs: Post Yours Here
Note: 11/3/2011 THREAD RULEs;
1. If You are gonna post a picture in this Thread then PLEASE leave it POSTED. When there is commentary for it or comparisons & then removed the Thread overall has a problem and many, including me, don't know what the heck someone is/was talking about. If it's a personally owned one then put a watermark on it if that's a worry. But DON"T Delete. I do from time to time copy them just in case but now always" . 11/3/2011
2. If you are posting an item from an "auction" site (ebay etc...) then pls post the actual picture, and then a link to it along with the "auction" or source site. Links become dated and items disappear for a variety of reasons (12/4/2011)
As one wanders around the WWW on auction sites or blogs it is inevitable that the "secretarials" verbiage will arise. There are many breakout discussions (see a partial list below that hopefully, I captured the greater majority of threads) and in typical fashion we deviate on many threads (which I have not captured) and throw in a secretarial here & there.
Many times the secretarials focus on the high end selling items as opposed to the mid level ones e.g. The Honeymooners. Of course, the secretarials differ, at least in verbiage, to the Clubhouse, AutoPen or outright forgeries (there are lots of good threads on) but that is not for this discussion.
But back to the midlevel ones like Roy & Dale Evans, Barbara Striesand, Mary Tyler Moore or Tony Curtis to mention a few. I will add 3 pictures of authentic ones (there may be variations) for the latter three but don't have the secretarials for a side by side (which I like to see as it provides a good visual). Anyone have some? So at the risk of biting off too much (if an area takes off, perhaps I can create a breakout thread for it) what are OTHER KNOWN Secretarials and their Authentic ones and why Secretarials?
for reference only;
http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/most-forged-signatur...
http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/charlton-heston-secr... Charlton Heston
Then we have the unfortunate masacree Vanderhoven Threads;
Montgomery Clift; http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/montgomery-clift-opi...
Tags: fakes, secretarials
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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New Section for the GOvernator! Mike felt this one, on a thread inquiry on a auction house, appeared to be a TTM. I wonder how many "I'll Be Back" were signed for him -vs- authentic signed one. Anyone have any in-person ones for comparision?
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Mike, I copied your Terminator under this thread subject.....for comparison purposes. It's really telling with the signature differences, isn't it.
Reply by mike aring
here's my "terminator" cast signed poster...with a close up of my Arnold that i got myself. there's a paparazzi photo around somewhere of me getting this signed... but i've had this autograph for about 7-8 years, so it might be more difficult to find than it used to be...
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here is another Arnold indicated as in-person. The grapevine is indicating that Arnold's TTMs were for the most part (if not all of them) signed secretarials.
does anyone have some TTMs they can share as I have seen several on some recent auctions that don't really align to the "in-person" ones;
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Sammy Davis Jr. Section; Brick commented on another thread on an auction inquiry that he felt the following was a secretarial? Comments or some authentic comparisions.
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Permalink Reply by Brick Hunter on
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Secretarial on the left. Authentic on the right.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Brick,
Thanks for the Sammy Davis Jr. comparo. Keep these coming! How did you confirm authenticity of the authentic ones?
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The authentic example is available on signed contracts and checks. The secretarial example is just on pictures and books.
Just a few differences you can easily look for. The Jr. is formed completely differently and looks different. The D in Davis in the authentic signature is more formed. The s in Davis in the authentic version has a bigger loop at the top. And just look at the y in Sammy. The "amm" in Sammy are completely different as well.
Signatures like Sammy's are why I like collecting autographs I'm a fan of from classic Hollywood and '40s-'80s music as opposed to modern Hollywood and modern music. They had real signatures back then, even fancy ones like Sammy and Charlton Heston for instance. Today they're check marks and loops with a dot. That's not a signature to me and I question the concrete ability to authenticate it.
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Sammy Davis Jr. authentic signature when he was at the Copa and just prior to the 1959 opening of Porgy & Bess with Sidney Poitier, Dorothy Dandridge, & Pearl Bailey
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I figure since we went through Sammy Davis Jr.'s authentic vs. secretarial, the next should be Dean Martin's. Secretarial on the left. Authentic on the right.
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What are the chances of this Martin & Lewis? Looked at 5 exemplars from schray and there is no similarity. The Lewis had some possibilities but in 4 exemplars they was still alot to be desired.
especially with an authentic lewis albeit early in his career
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Hmm... it's not secretarial. That kind of just strikes me as a forgery.
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