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Authenticity is Everything
Clark Gable?
Here's one I'd like to get an opinion on. It's a Gable signature on a Laszlo Willinger photo from a movie called "Strange Cargo." I've wondered about this one for a long time. I sent a photo of the autograph in to AutographCOA some time back for an online opinion. They said it was good. I'd still like to have some of your thoughts about it.
There is some guy selling copies of this exact same photo on eBay for about $10. It's the same identical signature in exactly the same spot as this signature. I've looked at this signature very closely under the lights. This signature was signed with a pen. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks Ladies and Gentlemen, Mike.ohotograph
Tags: Clark Gable
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eddy on
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Please take this in the spirit it is intended which is not for "shoring up my sense of intellectual superiority, or the need to reinforce my own insecurities" :
I don't think there have been anything malicious going on here. You initially approached this forum posting several threads that asked for honest opinions on items. Your profile says you are 'a collector'.
In the beginning, it was not disclosed to members here that you were also a somewhat seasoned dealer with fair amount of recorded past autograph sales in your eBay store selling history. Some members here have spent a fair amount of time (for free) in giving you what you requested on items that you were actively selling (without knowing the material was on the active market).
It's commendable that you are going to reappraise your business as a dealer and your current inventory. There's also the reality of past sales (some of which have images pictured in your eBay feedback). Those would certainly merit a review as buyers paid real money for that material over time. As you said: "Just acknowledge the mistake, learn from it, fix the damage if any, avoid repetition".
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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+1
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Permalink Reply by Patrick Michael Bratcher on
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I will do that. I do appreciate the time and energy both and Eric have spent helping me figure out some things. I don't mind good honest criticism when it's appropriate. This whole Gable experience has been an eye-opener for me. But I have understood your points. And I have taken them to heart. I certainly am not taking any of this exchange lightly. It's proving quite enlightening.
You guys are very thorough about your research on me. That's fine. Now I have a better understanding of what needs to be fixed. I have learned a lot recently. But don't let my significant lack of knowledge about the different parts of the autograph industry be cconfused with a purposeful willingness to commit fraud. I've gotten the impression that you've both been after me like ducks after a June bug. You certainly have gone to great lengths researching me and my activities. It seems like you've both been quite zealous in your effort to discredit as much as you can. Like I said earlier, I'm not on trial here. This is not a courtroom, and nobody appointed either of you guys as my prosecutors.
I know both you guys know a ton more about autographs than I do. You both have been at it for years and years longer than I have as well. Unfortunately, a lot of what I've learned thus far has been just plain wrong. I'm putting up with this microscopic examination of me and my doings not because I have to. There was life before Eddy and Eric. I'm quite sure I'll do just fine without the continuous Eddy, Eric prosecutorial examination of me and nuanced assault on my character. I don't have to answer to either of you guys. If I do answer, or allow myself to be examined, it is only because I choose to. Caphiche? I didn't join this club to have every inkling of my conduct scrutinized by you two. You want to help me, quit acting like a couple of Gestapo interrogators and teach me what you know with a spirit of understanding, and gratitude for being blessed with as much knowledge as I know you both possess. If not, so be it.
Thanks for your time,
Mike
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That's fine, Mike. There's no investigation that had to be done once you shared here that you were also a dealer and you pointed us toward your store (and asked us for honest input on your listings).
I wish you the well as you go forward. I'll certainly refrain from offering any future input on your merchandise if you continue to seek opinions on it here.
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I will not be submitting any more autographs to AutographLive for opinions. I made a deal with myself to list only autographs that have been "fully" examined and certified by one of the big authentication companies. I don't want to go through anything like this again. I know I have some work to do to become what I want to be. I can and will do it. I am going to accomplish what I want to achieve. And that is to be a honest, reputable combination collector/dealer. I'm still buying autographs. But I will not touch one that hasn't been certified. It's just too much trouble.
One of things that triggered my comment about being investigated was the comment you made about reading my feedbacks. I thought to myself, dang. these guys are really digging!
Regarding the invitation to look at my wares, I posted the store link knowing y'all would go take a look. I also knew that you two Eagle-eyes would probably find something that "didn't think looked right." That's why I said "If you find something wrong, let me know and I'll pull it. I wouldn't say that to just anyone. I would only say that to someone whose judgement I trusted.
I'll not lie. I very much resented the questioning of my honesty and integrity. You just don't know how hard I strive to keep my business clean. That's very important to me. In the past few days, I've pulled about $7000 worth of autographs out of the store. I did this because you guys said the stuff hadn't been properly authenticated. After a little deep thought. I concluded that yes, uou were right, and yanking them was the right thing to do.
They will not be listed again until they have been hands-on authenticated by a qualified authentication specialist.
Another thing that stirred my ire was a comment made about the Better Business Bureau. I said that the big 3 authentication companies all have F ratings with the BBB. POTP has either an A or A+ rating. I forget which one.
I have a paint contracting business. I've been an accredited member of the BBB for 14 years. My business has had an A+ Rating the entire time. Never in that 14 years have I received one complaint. That rating is kinda important to me.
Anyway, I didn't like the comment. I have worked like a farm animal to keep my rating the best I could make it. I didn't like someone Poo Pooing an organization I've spent so many years working to stay in good standing with.
It'll all work out. If AutographLive still wants me as a member, I'll remain a member. Whichever direction the mop flops. I will carry-on, a little older, a lot wiser, and a one heck of a lot poorer! 🤣 But that's ok. One thing I can say: I was born poor. But I have a good home, a wonderful wife of 36 years, a bird that loves me, and a God that loves even me more. I'll be fine.
I wish you the very best as well. I know you're a good guy, smart to. So is Eric. These lessons have been a little painful, but I've gained a lot. I didn't mean to make anyone mad or hurt anyone's feelings. I just really don't like my integrity being called into question by someone that knows really nothing about who or what I really am. That's just the way I am.
Also, FYI, I've had a number of FBI background checks when I worked at different the FBI field offices during my career, I never had any trouble getting through their front doors.
Much thanks for your input. And, I don't know if we'll communicate directly again. If we don't, the very best to you and yours.
Mike
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I can only speak for myself. I certainly never meant to imply that you were not honest or lacked integrity. My only motive was to accept your invitation and look carefully at the items you have had for sale and give input on them. I took it that you were unsure about material that you had and wanted honest opinions on it. I apologize if you feel I offended you.
There's a member here on AL who uses the phrase "It's all about the ink". It's a good thought to remember, especially on an online forum such as this when personalities can & do (at times) clash. Most of us actually don't know each other in 'real life'. All we might share is an interest in autographs .... and we are sharing that interest virtually. It seems it may be best here to focus analytically on 'the ink' when asked for opinions ..... not on the member doing the presenting.
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Hi Eddy,
I appreciate your words. Like I said earlier, I won't be sending anymore autographs in for opinions. Eric was right when he said that it isn't his or AutographLives job to clear my autographs for selling. I quess the whole discussion got fouled up when I failed to mention that I have an eBay store. I filled out my profile about a year or so ago. I didn't remember whether I said I had a store on it or not. At the time I filled out the profile, I hadn't sold much of anything at the time on eBay. Anyway, if someone had plain out asked me I would have said yes. I wasn't trying to hide it.
I'll be straight up. I don't know much at all about authenticating autographs. I learned from what little I read about it that JSA, Beckett or PSA/DNA were the big players in the authentication field. They were the industry giants! Over time, I've got mixed reviews, and conflicting opinions about every authenticating outfit out there. Anyway, I can go on infinitely about that subject. But I won't.
I've been doing some serious thinking about selling autographs. I think what I'm gonna to sell off what good autographs I have and stop selling autographs altogether. I'll keep some of my favorites. but the rest will go. And I won't be selling autographs after that. I'm tired of the BS. The autograph business as it presently exists is just too full of fakers, forgers, shysters, and frauds for me to want to continue dealing them. I have plenty of other stuff to sell. Stuff that doesn't need to be authenticated by people and businesses who can't really be trusted. It's just too much nonsense for too little return. That's the conclusion I've reached. I think that's the best road for me too take.
I have no qualms with you. I'm sure you are a very nice fellow. I'm sure Eric is also. Maybe I just got tangled up in a situation that didn't really bring out the my best. I suppose stuff like that happens from time to time. on the upside, no trip to the emergency for anyone. We all survived. Maybe all this was staged by "The Director" to show me something. It has.
I do want to check in with both you and Eric from time to time just to see how ya'll are doing. You are both very talented and knowledgeable fellows. Stay safe, and have a very Merry Christmas!
Mike
P.S. Please tell Eric that he can absolutely believe every bad word that he's ever heard about me! it's all true, honest!
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Hello Michael,
That is a very wise decision IMHO. I did not know how to make the suggestion myself or if I should.
It took me at least 20 years to become proficient with autographs and I am learning more now than ever!
"...The autograph business as it presently exists is just too full of fakers, forgers, shysters, and frauds for me to want to continue..." - perhaps public office? ;) just kidding.
There are no hard feelings here Mike.
Be well and keep in touch,
Eric
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Permalink Reply by Garrett Meadows on
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it would be a dream come true to have an authentic Gable sig on that particular image of Gable and Crawford.
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Hi,
Yes it would. I'm going to send it in for authentication. I've had a couple online opinions done on it. They came back positive. I figure it's worth a try.
Thanks,
Mike
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Most definitely! That's probably the BEST image of Gable and Crawford together.
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