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Charlton Heston - secretarials, variations & authentics (post 'em here)

This is the place for the discussion as to the follow-up for the secretarial study thread.

That thread; proposed;

The Theory
Photographs and other memorabilia sent to Mr. Heston's office were signed by a secretary. However, Mr. Heston did authentically sign books through-the-mail.

Real vs. Secretary
In authentic signatures, the R in "Charlton" is distinctly a lowercase "r" and less than half the height of the L. The first four letters are clearly "Char."

In secretarial signatures, the R looks much more like a lowercase "l" and is about the same height as the L. So, the first four letters appear to be "Chall."

and it seems to have merit. However, in looking at hundreds of Hestons of late there are many that fall into the above theory and yet quite a few variations that aren't so clean. There are no sacred cows in this thread but do keep it civil.

Bear in mind as you cascade thru the many examples below there are clearly some that fall into this, some that don't and an interesting variation.

Some commentors have been quick to point out that dealers and sellers of these items may have fallen into following a "bogus" exemplar. I will post Jan Schray's exemplars and the "secretarial" one touted here will be found in her 1997 exemplar book. Thus, without a date on COAs it's hard to tell when something was sold.

Cyrkin in the other thread opted to close it with a number of justifications; ... indisputable work. It's at risk of being adulterated by Hestons being presented as either genuine, out and out forgeries, or variations of known secretarials without the painstaking, focused research and consensus-building that made this study so valuable in the first place. That's beyond the scope of this discussion and is putting the study's clarity and integrity at risk.

I for one could not disagree with this rationale moreso. It is thru the posting of perceived hestons that either lends support, refutes or enhances the theory. I noticed the updates to the original blog include; I will note that, out a hundreds of exemplars, I found a handful of books that did not have a distinct "r" formation. My theory is these books may have been through-the-mail exemplars signed by a secretary. The reason for this could be that Mr. Heston's schedule did not allow for signing at that time or, once his illness took hold, secretaries began signing books through the mail as well as photos.

I've also noted this in same discussion with Zipper and there was a suspicion that other forgeries were apparent. it is the continued flow of questionable non-authentic items that gives strength to any theory. I'll attempt to capture the many examples before they are arbitrarily removed.

6/13/12 - Rules of the Thread;

R1 - stay on subject (don't care for moderated blogs but since owners of threads have little recourse to have comments removed at their discretion).

R2 - if you are going to post a link than at a MINIMUM post the picture of the item. The secretarial study thread has a number of links to non-existent photos. Esp Ebay ones as they have been removed by EBAY or no longer visible. If you don't know how then after you post the comment pm me and I'll capture the picture for posterity.

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Permalink Reply by DB on July 17, 2012 at 1:14pm

This is why the UACC ought to tigthen up on preventing UACC Member from posting information sounding like they are an RD or giving the impression that because they are a member this thus is ok!

COMES WITH A LIFETIME MONEY BACK GUARANTEE FOR IT'S AUTHENTICITY. MEMBER # 5066 UNIVERSAL AUTOGRAPH COLLECTORS CLUB.

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Permalink Reply by DB on July 17, 2012 at 1:24pm

Mind becoming Mush... So need your 2 pence on this one; The Seller claims private signing but no information on it and of course the TPAs referenced when it comes to heston could very well pass it but it's the last name accentuated trailer that has me sitting on the fence.... has anyone seen and have an example of that style as being authentic?;

This item was signed by Charlton Heston at a private signing. He signs this 8x10 photo of his most memorable role as Moses. It comes with a COA from Autograph Memorabilia who commissioned the private signing. This item is guaranteed to pass PSA/DNA or JSA.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on July 17, 2012 at 1:36pm

The Moses signed in silver is good.

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Permalink Reply by DB on July 17, 2012 at 1:39pm

thanks zip... just found a similar authentic one with the trailer. Look how close they are in contrast.

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Permalink Reply by Brick Hunter on July 17, 2012 at 3:04pm

That item is fine. It is from a private signing he did in the 90s. The VHS you posted, though, is clearly secretarial or a forgery of one.

Here's a real Charlton Heston auto I found on worthpoint that sold on eBaywhich is worth posting since the check was made out in full by Heston. It's always good to have handwriting samples.

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Permalink Reply by DB on July 17, 2012 at 3:50pm

Brick, you bring up an interesting point on checks... at times the checks make me wonder if Lydia or someone else had a hand in them; These 3 from the same private and business account time frame that seem to align to the one above.

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Permalink Reply by DB on July 17, 2012 at 1:34pm

Are buyers this gullable? First was in during the interivew or thru the Stars management? It can't be both and it is a stretch to believe in person... and a mere $10.99 to boot.

I use to run a video production company in the 90's and we would come up with some unique things to put in our waiting area for display and now because of space limitations and family commitments we have to sell off our storage .

We were lucky enough to have a interview with him about 10 years back and had him sign a few items for us and the crew.

All autographs were obtained through our studio connections with the stars and their management people.