Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 5:30am

Jason, my god you have a way with words ! lol

For the rest of the forum can I state Jason is a Greek born citizen and even so has a good knowledge of English and does well with only a few speling mistakes.

Well done Jason and some great points

So as I said previously Garry King has really been hung out to dry with all of this, and it appears he cant comment due to restrictions from AFTAL ?

Let me state again.. I said previously that perhaps the amount of items handed into Jacksons security overwhelmed Jackson and perhaps some of the items were signed by a third party / Jackson aid or Security worker ?

Everyone in LA were hitting him with stuff, i know my source got to him very early and got 20 items signed in his car. These were signed in sight and my source got a photograph with Jackson

I was also told that after a few days there was over 40 people chasing after him all with 20 or 30 items to be signed.

Come on guys ... Lets get real...... So  Jackson stood there and would signed all these items for everyone ? on the Street ?  haha .... NOT !

You know it never happened.

His security took items from collectors and returned them later in the day or even overnight.

Therefore I made my earlier statement about this via this forum

**************************

Immediately after I made my statement I was attacked by 2 UK Dealers but not via the forum

I have been accused of lying and threatened with legal action against me

Im careful what I state here now, but I do beleive there is a possibility that people were Duped by Jacksons security and people thought they were signed by Jackson.

I wish other people agreed with me, but there has been a lot of money generated via Jacksons autograph and people dont want to lose money

Jason your a star mate , thanks for your comments

Gary

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on October 31, 2012 at 6:44am

Jason

you stated "I know Gary King would tell you the same things as I have because I know what he is about", if so then why is so silent?

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Permalink Reply by Travis Christenberry on October 31, 2012 at 4:01am

Remember Jason, AFTAL made a statement already. They said they stood behind the Adrian MJ items, and that they would not speak of this again. So, what IS there to say at this point?

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 31, 2012 at 4:32am

Travis, not sure if we are speaking of this one or not which I posted in the Marc Mclennan thread, here it is again.  Since it's on the same subject that Jason is an ACAF forum member of, I'd like to think he has read it as well.  However, noone has taken ownership for it's posting as far as an AFTAL Board Member or anyone else for that matter so it's still "somewhat" anonymous from my viewpoint even though the poster identified him/herSelf as AFTAL.

"AFTAL" poster with 1 comment on September 17, 2012 who claims;

This whole thing has been rumbling on for a while now, and AFTAL are well aware of the problem and are taking steps to try and get to the bottom of it.

First, we are aware of the Michael Jackson thread which was started by a known US forger who has since been banned by the AML forum. These were then followed by at least one other, who was also banned, and we believe that the person resides in the UK. He/she is also thought to have been exposed at some time or other by AFTAL or one of its members as a seller of fakes on eBay.

In addition, certain US based dealers want us here in the UK to make much more use of PSA/DNA etc, as this is better for them, but as most know, its of little use to us over here, is costly, and has proven to be of little use time and time again. We do not have the space to explain it all here, but if you knew how PSA/DNA and eBay work together, you will understand that it’s not just wrong, it’s a restrictive practice that works against us here in the UK. AFTAL itself has already put together a plan to enable dealers and their customers to use an ‘authentication’ system that would be both cheap to use and agreeable to everyone, as well as being UK based. 

We have received a lot of emails and calls from many others who are sympathetic to AFTAL and what is going on, who have also been targeted on various forums before, including a number of very well known US dealers and the UACC.

You might note that the number of people posting on the AML forum is very low, most posts coming from the same few unknown people. When anyone tries to offer any reasoned opinion, they have been shouted down as a forger, faker or simply a liar, and as far as we can see only two known dealers have made any sensible comments, and both of those very quickly dropped out due to abuse etc.         

We are gathering as much information and evidence as we can on Michael Jackson, including video and photo evidence etc. It seems that certain people refute the claim that MJ signed as much as he did in the months before he died, but the evidence shown to us proves otherwise.

AFTAL have already spoken with their legal representation on this matter and their contact details are below.

Magnus Boyd
PSB Law LLP
4 Stratford Place
London W1C 1AT
Nearest Underground Station: Bond Street
Tel: 020 7355 8900
Magnus.b@psblaw.co.uk
www.psb-law.co.uk

We strongly suggest that if you wish to make any allegations on this matter you first contact your own legal representation to ensure what you are stating/distributing/alleging/posting (even if pasted from another web site/forum) is true without any doubt and not defamatory.

We will ask the moderators of this forum to use due diligence also.
 
We look forward to your continued support.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 5:25am

Travis, can you show this thread, maybe I missed it.

Was this before or after the Autografica show ?

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 31, 2012 at 5:28am

Gary, look at the next few posts.  the AFTAL claim travis cites is in this thread on page 16 and it was before the autografica show.

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Permalink Reply by Travis Christenberry on October 31, 2012 at 4:42am

DB, I didn't even know about that one. I was referring to this one. It is on page 16 of this thread.

"The AFTAL Board have read with great interest comments made on this forum regarding AFTAL members and the AFTAL organisation. We refute any accusations made concerning all AFTAL Dealers.

AFTAL does not recognise the status or credibility of the detractors of AFTAL on this forum.

Since the AFTAL organisation was formed the UK memorabilia market is a much safer place.

In regards to the Michael Jackson autographs, the AFTAL board have reviewed photographic and dvd proof that gives conclusive evidence that the allegations you have made against Adrian are unfounded and completely without question untrue.

Our conclusion is that the Michael Jackson autographs in question are 100% authentic.

Anyone wishing to see the photographic and video proof are welcome to attend the Autographica show on the 13^th/14^th October 2012 at the NEC Birmingham UK, where it will be available for you to view.

No further posts will be made by AFTAL regarding this matter."

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 31, 2012 at 4:49am

ok, that is the other "AFTAL" poster on this site that came up oddly enough after Cyrkin removed Dave Edwards comment pending identification... it showed up as a response to Cyrkin's comment on Edwards.  But, is it really from an AFTAL authorized or official AFTAL Statement?

Cyrkin later on indicated; Reply by Steve Cyrkin on August 14, 2012 at 7:33am

The email address is AFTAL, but I am going to try to get an individual's name. You're right about the wording. It's not what I would expect to hear

but it would be reasonable to believe that if they aren't from AFTAL or authorized statements that a REAL AFTAL representative would come on and disavow them rather than let the 3 ring circus continue.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 31, 2012 at 5:05am

Isn't there enough reason for the good and honest dealers in the "club"  to start to question their asociation with a club that would allow a statement to

A). Be made regarding questionable items or

B). Not come out and defend themselves against postings which claim to be an "official statement"?

If this:

"The AFTAL Board have read with great interest comments made on this forum regarding AFTAL members and the AFTAL organisation. We refute any accusations made concerning all AFTAL Dealers.

AFTAL does not recognise the status or credibility of the detractors of AFTAL on this forum.

Since the AFTAL organisation was formed the UK memorabilia market is a much safer place.

In regards to the Michael Jackson autographs, the AFTAL board have reviewed photographic and dvd proof that gives conclusive evidence that the allegations you have made against Adrian are unfounded and completely without question untrue.

Our conclusion is that the Michael Jackson autographs in question are 100% authentic.

Anyone wishing to see the photographic and video proof are welcome to attend the Autographica show on the 13^th/14^th October 2012 at the NEC Birmingham UK, where it will be available for you to view.

No further posts will be made by AFTAL regarding this matter."

 isn't the "Official" AFTAL statement, then why hasn't AFTAL made remarks about the above not being valid?  In fact, there was some talk at the time that AFTAL was even going to twist the story and possibly attack Roger and Steve over this.

Either way, it makes it difficult on the truly honest dealers who don't have any horse in the MJ, Adrian, Gary K race.

It sure sounds like the AFTAL board expects all of it's dealers to prescribe to it's "official" statement(s).

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on October 31, 2012 at 5:38am

Why is this posts going all over the shop , I am searching for new posts and I feel I should win something it's like look for the carrot game.. None of them seem to be in sync

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 31, 2012 at 5:41am

Jason, it's the way the software handles a thread (with indentation) that is complicated when it goes across a page.  So,  often (unlike a blog which is sequential) a comment may appear several comments below or even on the next page at times due to the "nesting" of related comments.

e.g. I know when I clicked on your email sent message about the comment above, it brought me to your comment (thus I know it's new).  Sometimes if its deleted before read it will bring you to the 1st page.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on October 31, 2012 at 5:42am

sorry i aksed lol feel more stupid now lol

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