Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on April 21, 2013 at 10:24pm

I have a set from 1978 (see attached). Some of mine look more rushed than yours and others less but there are certainly enough similarities to give this a fighting chance of being real - if they are faked they were obviously faked by someone wth some knowledge. The signature which is the least similar to mine is that of Geezer Butler, though it is actually the inscription that looks least similar.

I guess you could say that the signatures on the album almost look too good (very neat, not dedicated, above the respective signatories) but maybe there is a story behind it (competition win from a local radio station etc.). Otherwise I guess it may have been signed at a quieter moment during one of their Australian tours.

 

Attachments: No photo uploads here

• Sabbath 1.jpg, 1.2 MB
• Sabbath - 2.jpg, 1.1 MB

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Permalink Reply by scissorshand on April 28, 2013 at 7:49pm

Hi a pug called eva. Thanks for your comment. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Geezer Butler yesterday. I showed him this signed Album and asked him about whether if it is real or not. He confirmed those signatures are real and told me that it was signed in early 70s. He also said Mr. Bill Ward used to draw that cross thing. I'm so glad i found this album. :)

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on April 28, 2013 at 8:29pm

Hello,

I hope your items are real for you, but i have to say, that having a celeb say that that is their correct signature is often very unreliable. Their was a guy named Kissdestroyer who came on the board trying to tell everyone how his Kiss forgeries were real. His reasoning was that he showed his items to Gene Simmons, and Simmons said they were real on camera. So he was touting that as absolute proof the sigs were real. The problem was, they were most certainly forgeries.

The problem is that these artists sign so many items at so many transition points, that they often cant tell the difference between a half way decent forgery and their real auto. And that is just their autograph. When you get another celeb trying to confirm his bandmates signatures, things typically are very unreliable. 

Im by no means saying that that is whats happening here. But i can tell you that Geezer probably isnt a reliable source in determining if his bandmates autographs are authentic. On his own autograph in particular, probably much more reliable, but you still even have to watch b/c a half way decent forgery will fool most celebs.

I cant comment on this item b/c i dont know their early signatures, but id ask Roger Epperson if you want to be sure. All i can say for sure with quite alot of confidence, is that Geezer is not a reliable source to authenticate his past bandmates signatures. Im sure he knows what they look like, but certainly not well enough to determine authenticity.

But either way, good luck with your items,

Carl

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Permalink Reply by scissorshand on April 28, 2013 at 9:19pm

Hi Carl. Thanks for your opinion. Yeah, i understand what you mean, you make a good point. Much appreciated if you can ask Roger Epperson for his opinion. Thanks again for your comment! Cheers!

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Permalink Reply by Rock G III on April 22, 2013 at 10:04pm

No good IMO for one I dont like how shaky both bill and tony are. I dont recall ever seeing a shaky Iommi. Also I see a similarities between the best wishes inscriptions "W". The Ozzy is close but not close enough for me to purchase this item. 

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Permalink Reply by scissorshand on April 28, 2013 at 7:51pm

Thanks rOb G for your comment. I just confirmed with Geezer that they were real. :)

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Permalink Reply by Rock G III on April 30, 2013 at 9:36am

I can tell you for sure Geezer was incorrect. That is not an Iommi signature sorry. I have heard of others saying items where real because they dont have the heart to tell the buyer its a forgery, Since your post yesterday i have spent hours looking for a shakey Iommi and I can not find a single one in all his years of signatures that looks like yours.

I have currently own a backstage pass signed by the entire band (while running to the stage and no shake)  and a stage used speaker from Iommi I obtained directly from the band some years ago neither look anything like yours. Along with the hundreds of examples I have searched out online. Also that Ozzy is pretty inconsistent with others, but not as bad as the Iommi. I would put money on it. He was very constant in his signature over the years. It was never shakey even when running to the stage with a guitar strapped on. 

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Permalink Reply by Richard Johnson on May 2, 2013 at 1:08pm

You know nothing of early sabbath signatures.

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Permalink Reply by Rock G III on May 6, 2013 at 9:34pm

A week later and still cant find an Iommi like that one. I guess we will wait out to see you post one since there are none online I can find in my extensive search. But you being a self proclaimed expert should surely have several examples which prove me wrong.

And lets not forget you have been wrong in the past like when you tried to tell a well known and respected rock authenticator that you know more than them because you ate lunch with a band member. 

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Permalink Reply by scissorshand on April 28, 2013 at 8:04pm

Here are the autographs Geezer signed for me yesterday.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Johnson on May 2, 2013 at 12:45pm

IMHO

The signatures bear alot of good traits of early Sabbath.

What was used a pencil?

These early sabbath lp's are usually faked on a reprint LP by someone w/little knowledge of Sabbath signatures evolution of members signatures, or the LP printing details, (I'd like to see record label) is it a vertigo swirl??

also not used Usually is an original Vertigo press (The 1st thing I noticed about yours) it is a swirl label? correct?

Also forgers love the front LP cover of paranooid as it is dark & aids in hiding the forgers mistakes or clues toward the fact that it's forged. usually w/out question using blue ink pin as it is "Period correct" lol.

If this is forged they went to the trouble to research early sabbath signatures (Which are unfortunately found w/ease on in the archives of this very site) & did a decent job, & found an original lp worth between 50-100.00 you said you paid 45.00 for,as far as "Shakiness" I have dozens of Sab signatures I have watched them sign & I have shaky Ozzy DIO Iommi & Ward. depends on circumstance (Which we don't know) but signatures were & are obtained under all sorts of circumstances.

if this were signed in pencil I would assume the extra preassure applied to make up for light pencil (Maybe @ Night or poor lighting of club) were a possibility & would cause a forced or shaky look.

The "w"s on Wards & Iommis best wishes inscription do not bother me, The W on Bills autograph is full & round just like always, & even today if he personalizes an inscription after "Making his mark"  it still almost the same over the years.

 

I again have collected sabbath 33 years. many many signatures from each line up.but I can't say either

I apologize my response took awhile, I had some things I wanted to check (Sources repeatedly used for forgeries) I Think this is a legit piece.

The reason like some of you're responses are the reason I don't spend time on this site. Everyone thinks their opinion is law, I am sure I have more Sabbath signatures thann anyone on this site, I have toured w/them, collected them, & know 2 of the band members, Geezers signature has evolved as they all have, Yours are correct for that time,(also @ that time 70-71 the band hadn't signed millions of autographs & started a cookie cutter routine Geezer did inscribe love & peace in early 70's then mid 70's went to using love & magic. Enjoy this piece.

Richard

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on May 2, 2013 at 1:44pm

Hi Richard, 

can you post some examples of Tonys signature that are shaky. It will be of use in the future to other members to compare too.

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