Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Barry B on May 1, 2014 at 8:56pm

Oh yes I forgot to mention - I do have a COA that came with this, but it was from a smaller (now defunct) company, and as COAs are sometimes not worth the paper they're printed on, I figured I'd check out additional opinions!  :)

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on May 1, 2014 at 9:52pm

Sorry, but my opinion is that this isn't authentic. The inscription doesn't look right. The John signature looks slowly drawn to me and appears consistent with a particular forgery style.

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Permalink Reply by Barry B on May 1, 2014 at 10:23pm

Thanks for the reply!

I did a bit of checking referencing your thoughts on the inscription, and the "with love" appears to be very similar to this inscription (as we all know, no one writes things exactly the same every time, but with an extremely similar style!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/us/08bcjames.html?_r=0

Also, the "h" in with is written extremely similarly to the "h" in John - not something that would easily be reproduced if only the signature was copied.

Lastly, in regards to the signature being slowly drawn, upon closer inspection at an angle, the second loop of the "w" in wish, and the bottom of the "j" in John have been pressed harder - these are the most extreme examples, but there are indications of differing pressure throughout (also the end of the hair in the doodle, among others).  This can't be seen in the pics I provided, but are a good indication that it wasn't slowly drawn, as everything would be the same depth!

Just my observations here - thanks very much for your input!  :)

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Permalink Reply by spaceman on May 1, 2014 at 11:17pm

I have seen the same inscription, autographs and facial doodles on the same album. They were done in black ink. They were supposed to have been done at the time the album was released and had a COA. A check on the record showed that it was actually pressed in France in 1976. This style of forged Lennon Ono has been around for some time. 

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Permalink Reply by Barry B on May 1, 2014 at 11:45pm

This is an original 1969 US pressing.  The runout etchings are:

Side 1:  SW 1-3362 Z9#1

Side 2:  SW 2 3362 Z9#1

Sadly this is missing the 1970 calendar tho.  Probably used by the original owner... Also can't find any reference to official releases of signed copies.

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Permalink Reply by spaceman on May 1, 2014 at 11:58pm

Imay still have the photos of the album i came across. I will post them if i locate them. 

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on May 2, 2014 at 12:52pm

The "with love" inscription doesn't look similar to me. Unlike the example in question, the one you've linked to has the correct formation of the "o" in "Love" and "r" in "from."

The pen pressure may indeed differ, but overall the John signature in question does appear slowly drawn to me in comparison to authentic examples.

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Permalink Reply by Barry B on May 2, 2014 at 1:30pm

Sorry - I meant the style of the "with" - the separate W and I, and the same linking of the T to the H (a small, almost non-existent loop in the example, but the same style of writing it).

The love appears very similar to other examples of authenticated copies I've found (on Beatlebay for example), and like I stated below, it has a closed loop on the L, which is different from all of the Southern Cali forgeries I've found.

Argh - there really is no way to tell unless an auto is witnessed in person!!!

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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on May 2, 2014 at 11:22pm

Could you possibly post an authentic example of the "love" portion of the inscription that is consistent with the one in question?

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Permalink Reply by Barry B on May 2, 2014 at 11:51pm

If you check here:

http://www.beatlebay.com/autograph_examples.htm

And scroll down to 17, both examples of "love" show the full loop.

While not authenticated, this personal account has a similar "love" signature:

http://www.rickresource.com/rrp/lennonstory.html

While on the topic, this "with" looks incredibly similar to the one in question:

http://www.psacard.com/ResourceImages/1974-john-lennon-signature-3.jpg

Also in the above link, notice how the "H" in WITH is written the same as the "H" in JOHN, just as in my piece.  (Yes, they have different loop sizes, but the style is the same.  Note the relatively gradual incline with a steeper decline on the bottom, close to the same as mine.  Of course there is slight difference, but very similar).

After the research I have done for the past while, I am 99% certain this is NOT a "Southern California" forgery, as it does not carry the hallmarks of those pieces (there are a lot of consistencies in the forgeries, and this does not have any of them!!!!)

I now believe this to be a true piece, but sadly cannot authenticate it without spending a lot of money, just to gamble that the person viewing it will think the same as me.  After comparing to a lot of other pieces, my gut tells me it is legit.  And after reading several reviews of people trying to authenticate (for resale purposes) autos they have received in person, and being told they are not legit, it makes me feel disheartened to read how these "authentication companies" are viewed as the be-all & end-all of collectibles, when a lot of their methods are no different than what you & I can do right now from our computers.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Cushman on May 2, 2014 at 9:03am

Looks like the work of the "Southern California" forgers...

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Permalink Reply by Barry B on May 2, 2014 at 11:53am

I checked the examples of the "Southern California" forgers on here, and the "h" in "with" looks quite different in my piece compared to the consistency of the forged ones.  Also none of the forged ones have a closed loop on the "L" in "love", but this one does.

These are all great points everyone is bringing up - new stuff to look for and compare to! :)

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